The Society Heritage Collection

[Elmgate]

I am beginning to lose the will to live!  ???

However, as a member of Sussex Downs 009 Group (but not commenting in any capacity) I note that, at one time, we had some of the collection "on loan" in our posession, in order to display them in the "official" Society display case that we take to local shows (including EXPONG [TM]). I presume that, around the time of the inventory mentioned above, these were taken back by the Committee for review, but no decision was made then as to whether these, or others, would be returned for display. Therefore, when acting as publicity stand for the Society, we are left to displaying our own models, which may or may not have any merit, as discussed above. I confess, therefore, that at EXPONG for example, we had a rather small display (of exquisite modelling - not my own!  ;D ) although I did persuade some members (on NGRMO forum) to add their models to the case. We also tend to take our demonstration layout - basically a "round and round" with two scenes, one complete, and an alternative showing the process of building up scenery. On this, models may be shown running, and again, we tend to provide a set of loco and wagons/coaches from SDG stock, but welcome anyone to offer a model, whether for the duration of the show, or for short term test or whatever. The hand-held controller is left temptingly near the front, to entice children (or big kids!) to drive the trains, and thus provoke interest and conversation.

Clearly, there is a risk of damage or pilfering of historic stock if run on a display layout, but this may be more controllable if the models are used on a "working" layout. Therefore, considering all the previous comments, it would be good to see some of the collection available to local Groups to show, and help explain what Narrow Gauge (especially 009) modelling is about, and how we have developed. Other Groups may have a different approach to publicising our Society, however.

[rod335]

I think you have to consider the 'purpose' of the collection in the round. We are a Society composed of (mainly)small-scale railway modellers who happen to have found themselves in possession of various historic models. They were not acquired for any specific purpose other than to save them from being metaphorically thrown away. As such we have never either considered or known what to do with them. Indeed, whilst there seems to be a certain amount of fervour at present for letting the membership see them, until recently they never, or hardly ever, saw the light of day. They could have gone to Expong with more notice, with respect, a request on the net the day before the event is not practical in any terms!

I cannot say I am happy with the collection being permanently dispersed amongst the groups if I am still required to maintain the items. This was suggested to me about eighteen months ago and I said I would resign the post of Heritage Officer if this were to be forced on me. I do not want to sound too dictatorial on this but I would not be at all happy if my only contact with the items were to be having to repair them after someone had broken them.  That doesn't read quite as I intended it to but I can't think of a better way of putting it!

There is no suggestion that area groups should not display the items.

[Hobby]

So what DO you want to do with them, Rod, as that last paragraph contradicts the previous one in my view unless you intend to allow them only where you can bring them and take them home again afterwards? Again it goes back to the purpose of the collection, whilst I appreciate that they were "saved from destruction" I am sure that those who donated them didn't intend that they be locked away for no-one to see so we should sort something out...


On the point about how they will be looked after, several of my models have been with the West Midlands Group for many years now and are taken for display at the various shows the WM Publicity Stand attends and I haven't had any issues. In fact, as they are locked away in the case, they are "safer" than they would be if they were "in use" on a layout.




The Society really needs to decide what the purpose of the collection is, as it stands we are just going round and round in circles which is just as frustrating for Rod as it is for the rest of us!

[rod335]

I am more than happy for the items to go on request to various exhibitions. Being of limited means I cannot afford to take them myself to every show but there are ways round this as has been proved. Some will be at Warley in a couple of weeks, some were at York earlier this year. I didn't accompany them either time. If I had had more notice I could have got at least some of them to Expong.

[Alan Feldon]

O K My twopenneth
A decision has to be made as to whether the heritage collection remains as purely for hand built stock or is intended to show new members what we all started with i.e Egger and w/m kits.
I would suggest that all of the older members now hand building stock started with egger &/or w/m kits .and them moved on to scratch building.
The point that i am making is that if say hand built items made after say 1973 are to be  considered ,then I would venture to suggest that those same modellers started off with egger/mintrains or w/m kits and therefore would be relevant, to show how things developed.
the alternative is to keep it purely pre egger when the small band of modellers had literally to make everything themselves.
member no 009

[clayliner]

First, Julien, my sincere apologies to MrsW - certainly no insult was intended (I simply thought that she had some professional expertise in the general area we were discussing and might have some helpful comment to offer).

In any event, where would you draw the line? If you include one, surely you would have to include the whole range.

Well, one could decide to have everything, or nothing, or anything in between - if one went for the sensible option of just a selection, then some set of criteria becomes essential, which is what I think we are discussing here.

Incidentally, I don't see why it follows that one would have to include the whole range? - if that's not true for scratchbuilt items, why would it be any different for r-t-r?

If 'significance' is the guiding principle then it seems to me that it's hard not to include any r-t-r, or kits, as these have been the starting point (and beyond!) for many members (and still are today), and have therefore played a significant role in getting them into the hobby and/or maintaining their interest. But in principle if it was decided that, maybe for practical reasons, the Collection should be limited to scratchbuilt items, so be it. But the decisions will have to be taken.

I fully accept that the Committee may indeed have more pressing items to discuss when they meet, so maybe a Heritage sub-committee - less weighed down with the 'affairs of state' - could be appointed to tackle the questions which have been raised here and come up with a set of proposals? If its membership was dispersed around the country maybe each member (or some members) could eventually look after a part of the Collection, be responsible for it and also take steps to display at least some items in their care at local events and shows? If these sub-collections were, over time, rotated around then eventually many more members might get to see more items.

I'm sure Rod is correct in saying that the original aim of the Collection was mainly the very commendable one to save items from being scrapped, and that beyond that little thought had been given to where the Collection should go in the future. Maybe now is a good time to move toward deciding that!

David.

[Hobby]

I'm sure Rod is correct in saying that the original aim of the Collection was mainly the very commendable one to save items from being scrapped, and that beyond that little thought had been given to where the Collection should go in the future. Maybe now is a good time to move toward deciding that!

In my view that is spot on, David...

[rod335]

Oh no! Not another committee! Endless hours of talking and nothing ever resolved.

[danny]

Why on earth shouldn't RTR be included in the collection??? "Significant" was mentioned earlier - well the fact that the Egger stuff gave the impetus for many early OO9 layouts surely shows that they were "significant"!! The example doesn't have to be a pristine, first one to be sold in the UK, example, just an early example to show what they are like... And at the same time, as the Society says it covers 12mm gauge as well, so a Zeuke Saxon V1K should be there as well, whilst not many made it over here they are examples of early "Small Scale" (to quote the Society!) RTR NG Models...

Regards "showing" them I'm going to annoy some people with this comment as well. Why shouldn't they be displayed in a display case? OK they can run, fair enough if there's somewhere for them to run on then do that but that should not be a stipulation of the loan of them to a group. Many local groups who use display cases don't necessarily have space for a layout as well and surely the whole point is to show them to us all (and the public), whether they are running or not is irrelevant. I'd suggest that for many exhibitions such a display would be unique, I can't think of many other societies that could put on such a display. "You can't have them unless you can run them" seems a bit "off" to me... I know it wasn't said that way, but that's the way it came across, so if my interpretation was wrong please correct me and let's get them out there!

Personally I can't see why inclusion of Egger (earlier, rarer examples rather than the later Jouef variants) equipment is a bad idea in principal but I think it comes down to the fact that the society cannot preserve everything, so must prioritise models which may be unique or one of only a few built over rtr stock which was made in large enough numbers that somebody, somewhere will have preserved an example, as others have sensibly suggested already. Recently I believe a couple of layouts have been built using only early products and equipment, to show what a typical early 009 layout would have looked like, so this may be one route to go down (building replica or representative items to complement the originals) but this is probably beyond the remit of a heritage collection. It probably is too early to include current Minitrains items but, on the other hand, when the time comes to preserve them I wonder how many will be unmodified (assuming this is what we want from rtr models), as is also the case with previous rtr stock. More immediately, is it worth for instance asking Heljan for a pre-production L&B loco as this would certainly be rare and significant in 009?

[Turin 60]

I'm sure Rod is correct in saying that the original aim of the Collection was mainly the very commendable one to save items from being scrapped, and that beyond that little thought had been given to where the Collection should go in the future. Maybe now is a good time to move toward deciding that!

In my view that is spot on, David...

Gets my vote too.

John.

[WALLSHIRTS]

I always thought the purpose of the heritage collection was to preserve the few examples of early 009 models that had come into the society's possession, such as David Mander's Locos. Egger's early products are already well preserved in many modellers collections are they not?  If we want to show the development of 009 over the years perhaps that should be some kind of separate display (which could take a lot of work.) The 009 News seems the best place for discussing the hobby's early years. Brian Meldon's series on Eggerbahn are an excellent example of this.
Just me tuppence worth,
Mal.

[Hobby]

Regardless of what we include I see no point in preserving them unless we get to see them... Looking at photos is all well and good but nothing beats seeing the thing in the raw... Unless we want to end up with a collection that no-one will see like a certain well known real life narrow gauge collection!

[Hobby]

Oh no! Not another committee! Endless hours of talking and nothing ever resolved.

That rather depends on who is involved and whether the people on it can compromise, Rod! I don't think there'll be a problem in this case.

[Frank]

It seems to me that museums in general have a very similar problem.   I'm no expert, but as I understand it museums typically have a great deal more material in store than on display.  The material in store is kept for possible future display and also for possible future research.   

The essence of a good, interesting museum display is as much in the selection of the items to display and the information provided as in the artefacts themselves.

A similar approach might work for the Heritage collection - set up a display of a few selected models with information on what they are and how they fit in to the development of 009.   Use them to tell a story.   Have this on display at AGMs and similar events, and change it from time to time (not too often - give people a chance to see it).

Frank

[George Surridge]

Oh no! Not another committee! Endless hours of talking and nothing ever resolved.

Definition of Brexit.