The Society Heritage Collection

[MickT]

Fair comment Rod, perhaps if the write-ups that were intended to accompany the historical models had ever been done and some publicity about them ie features in the News, also agreed as committee actions, had ever appeared, then there may have been more awareness and interest generated within the membership.

Mick

[Malcolm]

I think Mick you have probably hit the proverbial nail on the head namely lack of information.  We are all in ignorance to a greater or lesser extent.  How can we expect members to take an interest in the heritage collection if they do not know it exists or, if they know of its existence, know little of its contents or relevance.  This is not something that afflicts only the 009 Society, pitch up at any exhibition and you will be confronted with layouts and displays with little or no explanation of what a particular layout purports to represent and displays of models with no note of information visible.  >:(  [OK, I'll come down of my hobby horse now and take deep breaths to calm down]

Our collective ignorance is all the more reason for an inventory of the collection to be published in the News followed by articles on each item which should include, taking the Aire Valley as an example, a potted history of the layout and the modeller, the relevance of the models and details of where more information can be found which in most cases will be a list of RM or MRN publication dates.  All this should also be brought together in a gallery on this website.

Let's see what Charles Insley comes back with and we can move forward from there.

Malcolm

[clayliner]

Just two additional comments, if I may:

(1)  I don't know exactly how Heritage items have previously been displayed at shows etc. - so there's no intended criticism - but I suspect they will not be easily noticed unless they are displayed prominently. A cabinet with  few items on the corner of a table may well be overlooked, but a separate table for a display, with its own entry in the show programme, might raise the visibility and interest.

(2)  Given that many items from deceased members in due course arrive at 009 Sales, the Sales Officer/Team probably have a potentially significant 'gatekeeper' function in looking out for new (i.e. old) items worthy of consideration for the Collection. If so, the Team would possibly benefit from guidance from the Committee as to what criteria to apply in selecting items for possible inclusion.

David.

[danny]

(1)  I don't know exactly how Heritage items have previously been displayed at shows etc. - so there's no intended criticism - but I suspect they will not be easily noticed unless they are displayed prominently. A cabinet with  few items on the corner of a table may well be overlooked, but a separate table for a display, with its own entry in the show programme, might raise the visibility and interest.

Would they perhaps be better off displayed on some sort of diorama, perhaps made in the style of the layout they originate from? (I realise this is more work, it is only a vague suggestion). Are there scenic items/buildings preserved as well or only locos?

[gtmspyder]

Again, I don't know the implications or possibilities of this, but as I remember reading the original Railway modeller articles pertaining to some of the models that I presume we are talking about here, would it be possible, with the permission of PECO, to reprint extracts from these articles in the 009 News?

Just a thought.

Regards, BrianT.

[rod335]

Since the models were not individually featured and really only appeared in general articles about the railways concerned, times were different then, I can't see there would be many articles that would be worth repeating for that purpose.

[Turin 60]

A (very) few thoughts on the Heritage collection as being discussed. First may I state that in my opinion I think Rod does a superb job of getting items in the collection working and keeping them so.

Getting the collection "seen", needs people to "do" it and take responsibility for organizing transport and safe care of the items involved, I know there is such a thing as insurance but most of these items are unique and are "one offs", and as such are irreplaceable.

What is the collection about and what's in it? (lets assume not everyone knows) Well I believe there is a photographic archive/record and I'm sure articles in the news would be most welcome but here's my suggestion (sorry Chris).

How about (in News format) an extra/special issue purely concerned with the collection, with a photographic record of the collection and a brief history of the items or the modeller or railway they came from. Perhaps with some over run on the print so all new members can have a copy when the join to bring them "up to speed" with the history of 4mm scale narrow gauge. With if possible cross references to published articles in the model press.
So even if the Heritage items are in a small display case on the corner of a demo table any society member old or new would be able to identify what they are looking at, "oh look that's one of David Manders engines" and so on.

Well there you go that's my thoughts on the collection.

John Bruce No7.

[rod335]

Hello John. I was trying to work out 'Turin 60' until I saw your name. Thank you for your kind comments. I think the idea of a 'Special' for the News may have some legs, I will ensure this is raised at the next Committee Meting, scheduled at present for January (NOT that far away!) I believe we have 20 minutes scheduled on the Agenda to discuss the collection.

An apocryphal tale for those who are interested. When the Convention at Kegworth was announced I worked long and hard to get all the locos in the collection operable. I arranged with Garry Whiting that I would have a table beside my layout and constructed a simple 9 and 12mm gauge demonstration track so the locos could be run. I took this and a spare controller to the convention but because space in my car was severely limited arranged with Geoff Bowyer that he would take the Heritage stock.

On arrival at the convention, I was dumfounded to discover that a former committee member had unilaterally taken the decision that, notwithstanding my efforts, all the Heritage stock would be displayed, static only, locked in glass display cabinets. Really does make you wonder why you bother sometimes. At least I intended that members could see the stock running.

[Malcolm]

Just dumbfounded?  You must have calmed down a bit since then Rod  ;)   

Yes I can confirm Rod was 'dumbfounded' and I myself was more than a 'little annoyed' as we were next door to Rod with P D Hancock's Dundreich as part of what was to have been a concentration of all the heritage items together.  In addition to the heritage collection running on Rod's display tracks I had hoped to have had the work of Hancock's peers appear on the Craig and Mertonford.  Once in a lifetime photo opportunites went a begging.  As it was I think we were only able to spirit one of David Mander's locos onto Dundreich where it was posed with 'Alistair' although I think Mick T may have spirited one or two others out of the showcase when backs were turned.

Malcolm

[rod335]

On top of that, at the end of the convention, another erstwhile Committee member sought to take away my own personal Heritage items in the belief that they belonged to the Society. Neither of these Committee members thought to ask me, the Heritage Officer, about ownership or what my wishes were for the display. Sorry but I found and still find such arrogance to be unacceptable.

[clayliner]

Interesting to see Eggar/Minitrains/Lilliput mentioned. If one were trying to define criteria for selection for the Heritage Collection one would need to decide at some stage whether it would be limited to items made by members, or whether it might include other items which were of significance to the development of 009, in which case some ready-to-run items might warrant inclusion (in theory, at least). Some examples of Eggar might qualify on this basis, perhaps. If that was true, then maybe some modern (e.g.) Minitrains specimens might also qualify? - given the significant boost they have given to the hobby in recent years. Which then leads me to ask the question: do we need to wait thirty or forty years before we select a battered Minitrains loco for the collection, or just take a nice shiny new Brigadelok out of its box and add it now? There's a slightly serious question lurking in all this somewhere, which is whether something has to be OLD to be worthy of inclusion? (and whether something new can't be).

Considering criteria more generally, maybe the only serious criterion is that an item needs to be notable in some way? Notable for having been made at all, for the way it was made, for why it was made, for how it was made, or for how well it was made.

I wonder what criteria professional curators work to? (Any suggestions, Mrs W?)

David.

Maybe

[rod335]

Not sure I would go along with this suggestion. It has been mooted before, when it was proposed that the Society should acquire one of every commercially produced HOe/009 item. Where would you stop?

My feeling is that acquisitions should be limited to SIGNIFICANT models which, to me, pretty much defines items as early/handmade/scratch-built. Not kit-bashed, which is viewed by some nowadays as scratch-built. But of course, this definition will to a degree be a moveable feast dictated by the age of the beholder. I am not at all sure that personally I would see the Minitrains range as being as significant as the original Eggar range although I am sure many others will disagree.

I think what we should be looking for, if indeed we wish to pursue an ACTIVE acquisition policy, should be pioneering models, trail-blazers if you wish. This fits far better with my concept of 'significant'. If we are not careful, we are going to end up with a membership-wide vote on what should be placed in the collection, which in effect would be nothing more than a glorified wish-list.

All food for thought to be discussed at the next Committee Meeting in January.

[gtmspyder]

I think the significance of models is as much to do with there original presentation to the public, ie the printed articles they are associated with, as any merit in the model itself.

There are some superb modellers and models out there, a lot of them unknown to we the general readership of this forum, 009 News, and other magazines and publications available, but what a lot of us do remember, are the articles we read, which included some models that are memorable, in the context we remember them in.

Unfortunately, my poor memory inhibits my recounting of examples to reinforce my statement.

I do know, that several of PD Hancock's models for instance, would not be considered particularly worthy of saving or heritage status, were it not for the fact that they played a role in the stories of their exploits on the Craig and Mertonford railway in the Railway modeller, all those years ago.

Without the story background, a lot of the models, in the cold light of day, are of little merit, despite the undoubted work I understand Rod has put into them to make them work.

Having been at Kegworth on part of that memorable weekend, and not knowing of the back story recounted above on these pages, I think it a very poor show that Rod's work was so poorly presented by some unthinking member of the committee on that weekend.

Well that's my two pennorth for what it's worth.

I expect I will receive some flack for my outspoken words, but at seventy nine years old, with fond memories of articles read and books purchased recounting those articles, I aint much bothered.

Regards,

BrianT.

[rod335]

Brian, I think you have raised a very salient point there. I do think that many of the younger members do not realise the historical significance of many of these models because they, firstly, do not understand their historical context, that is they do not appreciate what the rest of the railway modelling world was (mainly) like at the time and, secondly, as a consequence of this, they see only some relatively crude models by today's standards so are viewing them out of context. Not sure what we can do about this. A few years ago the April 61 RM article on the Aire Valley was (more or less) reproduced in the News and caused little comment (interest?) except from 'the usual suspects'. So I am not sure that reproducing the articles is the answer. As an alternative, I wonder if a reprint of the narrow gauge loco section of 'Narrow Gauge Adventure' (Hancock's book, not Kayzer's!) would be a positive starter for the suggested News Special? Peco would permit this provided the source is acknowledged. This would, perhaps, give a readable and accessible introduction to the subject of Heritage items. I understand that you can dismiss any idea of a reprint of the book by Peco whatever we may feel the demand might be.

[George Surridge]

Not sure I would go along with this suggestion. It has been mooted before, when it was proposed that the Society should acquire one of every commercially produced HOe/009 item. Where would you stop?

My feeling is that acquisitions should be limited to SIGNIFICANT models which, to me, pretty much defines items as early/handmade/scratch-built. Not kit-bashed, which is viewed by some nowadays as scratch-built. But of course, this definition will to a degree be a moveable feast dictated by the age of the beholder. I am not at all sure that personally I would see the Minitrains range as being as significant as the original Eggar range although I am sure many others will disagree.

I think what we should be looking for, if indeed we wish to pursue an ACTIVE acquisition policy, should be pioneering models, trail-blazers if you wish. This fits far better with my concept of 'significant'. If we are not careful, we are going to end up with a membership-wide vote on what should be placed in the collection, which in effect would be nothing more than a glorified wish-list.

All food for thought to be discussed at the next Committee Meeting in January.

I agree that significant models in the development of 009 should be added, since they become part of the heritage.  I can see no reason why certain RTR  models cannot be included as they are certainly influencing the hobby now.  Limiting to scratch built etc seems rather elitist as different people enjoy and contribute to the 009 experience in different ways.
George S