Neil's workbench thread - wagon building

[duttonbay]

The three images are inside  tags.

http://www.neisar.co.uk/images_OO9/class_b/wagon_004/img_003.jpg
http://www.neisar.co.uk/images_OO9/class_b/wagon_004/img_003.jpg
http://www.neisar.co.uk/images_OO9/class_b/wagon_004/img_003.jpg

[NeilMac]

Just a single photo update here, but I have been looking into the lack of images for some viewers.

Could I ask for feedback to see if this is working for everyone else as I it works for me. I can see all the photos when I use Firefox, but none show when I use Chrome or Edge. The links below the photos work for all browsers.

I have editing all the earlier postings and added links to open the photos in a viewer in a separate tab. Not as clean a solution as having them show directly, but does allow them to be viewed.

The problems seems to be trying to display photos stored http on a https forum. If that leaves you totally confused then I am sort of envious - for me it is part of my dayjob, and explains why my none of my layouts have ever used DCC. Also why, until I bought some newer locos and found out how damaging it could be to them, I stuck with my H&M Duette for control.

Finally, to the update. This is the start of a conversion on a Dapol refridgerator wagon kit. The side were too long for my 22' requirement, so the first step is to cut them down. In the photo one side is still full length, and the other has been trimmed. Since taking the photo I have trimmed the second side to suit.

http://www.neisar.co.uk/view_wagon_image.html?b-006-001

[Peter Boulter]

Hi Neil.
I can see the pictures OK. I'm using Firefox 96.0 (64 bit) on Win 10.

[Hugh Norwood]

I think the problem with Chrome might be that you are using http rather than https

I had the same issue a while back when trying to post images from my website, which also only uses http (I can't see the point of paying for a encryption key when I'm not selling anything, nor gathering data from visitors!)

I got round the issue by opening an imgur account and copying the images there. you can link to images from imgur and they show up fine as imgur uses https

(Just a possible solution...)

[NeilMac]

I think you are seeing enough different wagons here being worked on together to realise why no single one makes it off my workbench quickly, especially as there are probably 3 more in progress that I have not shown yet. However, failing to learn from this, when I could not use my bench over Christmas I had a rumage through old parts, kit, part built and abondoned conversions etc to find what I could use. Items I found spread themselves across 4 scales from N to O.


http://www.neisar.co.uk/view_wagon_image?b-000-003

Going in reducing order of scale the first is a tank body from a Chivers On30 kit, which works out just over 20' so just within my length criteria. For this I have a choice of building a steel underframe - really just a large I girder beneath the tank with outriggers to hold the bolsters for the bogies. Alternatively I could mount it on a wooden decked flat wagon. At the moment I am leaning towards the wood flat wagon, possibly with real wood for the deck. As I have just reread my book on weather this may end up rusty, stained and looking towards the end of its usefull life.

For the 4 wheel coach, just one of several I could have selected, I plan to use just the body and combine this with an open wagon body or scratch built sides to create a permanent way crew vehicle with part crew facilities and part for carrying tools or materials.

The N gauge boxcar is a 40' hi cube that I had previously started as a HOn30 US boxcar. This is within the length required - just - and with the extra height works out tall enough for 009 as well. Previously I had started this using the existing roof roughly rejoined with a plasticard strip in readiness for a wide roofwalk to cover the gap, having previously done this on an earlier conversion. However for 009 I plan to cut out the entire roof and replace it with a curved one as per the other wagons in my fleet. The bogies will also be changed from the N gauge ones currently used to my standard of Peco 009 bogies.

Finally an other Bachmann US car. The photo is dark here, but this is a composite construction - wood behind a steel frame - so is slightly different to the steel version I had showed earlier in the thread. Again this should be a simple case of remove the ends, half the body, rejoin with a false floor, replace the ends, and finally add bogies and paint.

One thing about the last model here. Due to its similarity to the steel open wagon I plan to paint it a very different colour to the grey that that one appears in. An explanation of the way I am thinking here being related back to the use of these wagons on a shunting layout. For this kind of layout a common method of deciding which wagons need to be shuted where is to use cards each with a photo of one of the wagons which can then be shunted and laid out to indicated what needs to go where. The use of such a system works best when the wagons are either all distinctly different types or are painted in obviously different colours. The method however struggles if the only real difference between the wagons is the reporting numbers. Hence why I am generaly trying to pick different wagon types, or thinking well in advance about liveries.

[NeilMac]

Progress on one wagon, plus 2 already completed wagons which I have not shown yet.

The progress was on the Dapol Grampus conversion, adding the ends and bolsters


http://www.neisar.co.uk/view_wagon_image.html?b-005-002

This shows that after having a decision to make about how to complete the ends, as covered in a previous post, I decided to try reusing the original ends that I cut out before halving the body. I firstly cut these oversize by trimming both sides equally with a craft knife, and then finished using wet and dry to ensure they were a good fit between the ends.


http://www.neisar.co.uk/view_wagon_image.html?b-005-003

For this wagon I was able to reuse the original floor cut down when I reassembled the body, which meant that the bolsters need the full .040" padding to clear the mounting pin on the bogies. Still to do here is to complete the underframe, which will be to represent a steel rather than wood for this wagon.
Looking now at the photos whilst preparing this I also noticed that the 4mm hole in the nearest bolster has a ridge around it from the drilling, so that will need sanding back smooth to ensure good running when the bogies are attached.

Using the minimum definition of 'operatable wagon' to cover anything with enough bodywork to support the bolters and allow bogies to be fitted I now have 5 wagons that fit this description. I did think that as soon as I had enough wagons to be able to test a layout during building I would start one. Of the 3 track layouts I was considering two require a minimum of 6 wagons and the other, depending on the size I build it, needs either 5 or 8. However I do know I get more distracted building rolling stock that actually getting on with layout building, so watch this space but do not hold your breath!


These are 2 wagons that I had already completed before starting this thread


http://www.neisar.co.uk/view_wagon_image.html?b-003-001

http://www.neisar.co.uk/view_wagon_image.html?b-003-002

This is the Dundas kit. This is withn the length range for my layout at just over 20', or at least is is without the WD bogies sticking out of the end. In line with the other requirment for my stock, i.e. use of Peco bogies, I added these fully under the wagon. The back story for the line being that the wagon was bought second hand but the bogies were either unservicable, or just missing, so the local shop just fitted what was working for other stock.



http://www.neisar.co.uk/view_wagon_image.html?b-002-001

Another chassis alteration was this Bemo wagon. Original, as bought for the club sales stand, it was a 6 wheeler. That did not look good for operating through small radius points, so this was also swithed to Peco bogies. Interestingly although the box this came in was labeled HOe, it was not until I came to dismantle it that I realised the wheelsets were HOm, so it would never have been able to run on my layout anyway. Being HOe/HOm this wagon is the widest of those I have built, so this is the one I will be using to check clearances when I do start a layout.

[Julian Evison]

It is a neat idea to use Peco bogies on the Dundas WD bogie van. How did you go about fixing them to the underside of the van?

Thanks, Julian

[NeilMac]

It is a neat idea to use Peco bogies on the Dundas WD bogie van. How did you go about fixing them to the underside of the van?

Thanks, Julian

Julian,

Because the kit does not have the floor mounted high enough up in the sides I used the bolster alone without the packing. i.e. just a .060" strip drilled out 4mm, and then cut a hole in the floor above the 4mm hole for the mounting pin on the bogie to pass through. I did it this way because otherwise the wagon would have riden too high for the look I was after.

However with this kit it was not quite that simple! As supplied the chassis has 2 attachment points for the kit supplied bogies which end up completely in the way. This is easier or harder to get round depending on whether your kit is already built.

If not built - mine wasn't - then I cut the chassis in half, reversed the two halves such that the mountings were now in the centre of the wagon out of the way, and then fitted it upside down, leaving a flat chassis underneath ready for drilling out before attaching the bolsters.

If your kit is already built then all is not lost, just a bit more work. You can cut the bogie mountings out, possibly using holes drilled round it first to help. The plastic is quite soft so should not be too hard to do. Ensure there is enough chassis left at either side, then make the bolsters full width and attach them.

[NeilMac]

Not a lot to show at the moment, but adding this now because I think I have solved the problem of images not appearing on any other browser than Firefox.

I have been working on the chassis for the Dapol Grampus conversion. This is a bit more involved than other chassis I have been creating because it will represent steel rather than wood. I could have ordered some I beam for this, but to save postage costs and waiting time I have been building m own from regular rectangular strip.

The only slight progress to see is on the refiedgerator wagon (Dapol interfrigo conversion)



All I have done here is to add a level strip to the bottom of the sides in readiness for assembling these to a floor. This is the second wagon I have now got to this stage, so a floor cutting session will be called for very soon.

[Julian Evison]

It is a neat idea to use Peco bogies on the Dundas WD bogie van. How did you go about fixing them to the underside of the van?

Thanks, Julian

Julian,

Because the kit does not have the floor mounted high enough up in the sides I used the bolster alone without the packing. i.e. just a .060" strip drilled out 4mm, and then cut a hole in the floor above the 4mm hole for the mounting pin on the bogie to pass through. I did it this way because otherwise the wagon would have riden too high for the look I was after.

However with this kit it was not quite that simple! As supplied the chassis has 2 attachment points for the kit supplied bogies which end up completely in the way. This is easier or harder to get round depending on whether your kit is already built.

If not built - mine wasn't - then I cut the chassis in half, reversed the two halves such that the mountings were now in the centre of the wagon out of the way, and then fitted it upside down, leaving a flat chassis underneath ready for drilling out before attaching the bolsters.

If your kit is already built then all is not lost, just a bit more work. You can cut the bogie mountings out, possibly using holes drilled round it first to help. The plastic is quite soft so should not be too hard to do. Ensure there is enough chassis left at either side, then make the bolsters full width and attach them.

Neil, thanks for the clear and full explanation. It is a neat solution

Julian

[NeilMac]

I have made some more progress on a number of wagons. just to show how many I am working on together this update will show two wagons not shown before


The Dapol Grampus conversion now has chassis detail. Difficult to see the detail of the white in the photo, but this is a representation of a steel underframe.
This now just needs details - including vac. pipes if that is what I decide to standardise on - and painting. I already have a livery in mind, and because this wagon has a good interior after the conversion I plan to run it without a load so the wood decking will need to be painted to represent weathered unpainted wood.


I photographed these together because both are at the same stage. One is the Dapol Interfrigo wagon with the sides cut down to 22' a seen in an earlier post. The other, first showing of this, is a Hornby van of which I have only retained the sides. Fortunately this was battered when I bought it from a rumage tray, otherwise I may have end up try to keep the Cadburys livery on the finished model.
Both still need ends and roof, so a bit of work to do yet.


This is the other first view of a conversion, this one of a Dapol 9 plank open which is another of the wagons that can be bought as a body shell only.
I bought this because the body length was within the valid range. However I then did have some doubts when I saw how high the wagon was, almost as high a most of the vans I was building. This got me to wondering just how heavy such a wagon would get if fully loaded. In the end I liked the look of the wagon and decided to continue with the build. I now just need to think of some comodity that is suitably light for it to be loaded with.

[Robin Webster]

All your models look very good Neil, a lot of work has gone into them. Once painted they will look very smart.

[NeilMac]

Photographing my work has been getting behind the progress I have been making, but to start catching up here is where I am at with the Dapol 9 plank conversion




This show the full underframe added to the wagon, plus the bolsters. For this wagon, due to it already being high, the bolsters are set directly against the floor, so will need a hole through this for the mounting pin. Even though this is an open wagon it is no loss needing to do this, as the floor will need covering anyway from where the original body was cut down the middle - I managed to cut and sand back both the ends neatly enough so they join up cleanly, but to do this for the full length of the floor would not have been easy.




With the bolsters in place and dry it is then a moments job to attach the bogies and the wagon is usable. Still to do is the new floor already mentioned to cover the original, plus detail, weight and paint.

[NeilMac]

Another wagon not seen before. This one did not actually spend long on my workbench as there was not much that needed doing.

I bought this from the sales stand at Narrow Gauge North a few years ago. Perhaps somebody reading this recognizes it? I had though when I bought it that it was a OO gauge conversion, but on looking closer I can see that it has been scratch built



The wagon did have 2 bolts sticking from the floor which were presumably for bogie mountings, although I bought it as a body only. All I really needed to do to get it usable was to cut out the section of floor with the bolts - no loss, I needed holes in the floor anyway - and then add bolsters. After waiting for the glue to dry the bogies could be fitted and job done.

Or very nearly - the wagon was already painted, but did have one missing detail. There was one roof ventilator, and a hole where the second should have been.




This shows the remaining roof ventilator. Does anyone know where these may be avaialable? Presumably they are a standard 4mm detail item, but I do not know the manafacturer.

If I can not find one then I will either need to try and 3d print one, or else remove the existing one, but that action would then need the roof filling or covering and repainting so probably more work.


I am getting to the stage now where I have enough wagons to satisfy the minumum number for the layouts I am considering, so am starting to think now about coupler modifications for remote or delayed uncoupling. There are a few ways I could go on this. I may add my thoughts on the options as I see them later, after I have worked through them.

[Julian Evison]

Neil,

I am sure there must be other suppliers, but one would be Alan Gibson. His catalogue is available on line as a PDF: http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/Catalogue.html
If you look on page 20, you will find a couple of types. I think you want the Torpedo type.

Markits also make them and are available from Roxey Mouldings: https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/1072/4ma033-torpedo-coach-roof-vents-20-/

Unfortunately they are not cheap as they are turned brass. Perhaps others know of plastic moulded ones.

Julian