Neil's workbench thread - wagon building

[NeilMac]

Having been busy on other things for a while, and then been away, I thought that I would take stock of where I am at with the stock I am building. Looking here just at the vans, so exluding the opens and cattle wagons. AS if prrof were needed I am more of a rolling stock builder than a layout builder I already have 10 vans in progress for a layout that, depending on exactly which one I build, takes a minimum number for operation of between 5 and 8.



Back row, almost complete and can be run on a layout, left to right;
- Bemo 6 wheeler conversion
- WD ambulance van converion
- Scratch built van as bought except for Peco bogies

Middle row, various stages of completion, left to right;
- Bachmann 40' hi cube conversion. Bogies fitted but still needs ends completing and a roof
- Hornby rib side van conversion. Most of the bodywork still to do
- Dapol interfrigo conversion. Most of the body to do. Working out the door hinge to be more to scale rather than oversize to allow it to open and close.
- Triang van. Underframes including included axleboxes removed. Still needs ends removing before repalcing to width and a roof.
- Lilliput van. Hope to reuse the ends on this by carefully saving the centre part. Roof to be completely replaced.

Front row, barely started;
- Unknown OO kit for GWR van (see next picture), started narrowing ends.
- Parkside LNER hopper wagon. Not yet started.


This wagon was an assembled kit I bought from, I believe, the Wakefield exhibition. Not sure of the manafacturer (does anyone know?), but it is clearly a GWR van.



This kit is made from a hard and quite brittle plastic (maybe it is only brittle because it is old). Because of this it does take some time to cut, so I have only got one of the ends cut to width for now. Next will be to trim the second such that both are exactly the same width, to ensure that the body will be rectangular when reassembled.


Having found that I already have 10 vans in progress, it is Narrow Gauge North this weeked which I am hoping to get to, so who knows what I will find on the sales stand, or with the traders there.

[NeilMac]

It has been a long while since I added any updates here! I have been doing other things for most of the time, and although I have made some progress most of what I did was a bit here and a bit there working on several wagons at once, which means there was never a lot to show.

Having now got back to spending more time model building I am starting to get more done, and have got some photos taken to keep the thread active.

The first two photos are the result of a sunny day, when I went outside with a razor saw and a junior hacksaw to cut down two wagon bodies, one HO and one OO



First the HO one, a Liliput van. As can be seen I have cut the sides from the floor and the ends. I have been careful with the ends as I am planning to narrow these and reuse them. I think I will need to set them further back, due to the corrugations being full depth across the wagon when cut down, rather that tapered at the ends - but I think I can still make it work.




Second the Triang body. Not much left here from this one. I had already removed the axleboxes - which were moulded as part of the body. I have discarded the ends because the origina body had plain ends, whereas the sides have plank detail. I plan to build new ends from 2mm scribed platicard, which will match the plank width on the sides.



I have also been think about couplers.

I have not gone into detail on the layout plans that I am thinking of constructing one from. That really should go in a layout thread, but being so early in the process that thread would go very stale before I have anything to show. But just to mention of the 3 layouts one needs remote (fixed locations) uncoupling , one needs delayed action, whilst the third may manage with remote, but would be better with delayed action.

I have seen how Peco couplers can be adapted for remote magnetic uncoupling. This looks easy to do - with the caveat I have only seen pictures and not yet tried it. another option would be grass tuft uncouplers. Not sure if this would work with the Peco bogies because the retainer plate is so low, but this should be easy to test.

As for delayed action. I think I have worked out a way that magnetic uncoupling could also be made delayed.

I think I will have a lot of trial and error testing to do to test this out, and work out the best type of magnets to use, neodym (very powerful, but also very critical in positionong due to quick fall off) or regular 'old style' magnets.

[JulienW]

With respect to couplings you could try the Greenwich ones that are designed to be used with magnets for remote hands free operation, though you will need to make them up from the kit.

If you already have Peco couplings as these have come as part of the bogies you are using then they should be fitting into an NEM socket. One of the Greenwich couplings, CPL3, is designed to fit into the NEM socket making conversion easier.

For the delayed action this can be achieved by adding a horizontal wire above the coupling. I'm not sure of the specifics as I've not done this myself but I'm sure I've seen posts about it on here somewhere.

The other suggestion for delayed action (and magnetic operation) would be DG couplings. I use these myself and whilst they can be a bit of a faff to make and set up they are probably no worse than the Greenwich type to build. They are available from Wizard Models, along with jigs to help build them and electromagnets for operation. As they are of the 'lifting loop' type as long as the heights are consistent they will couple up with the Greenwich, Peco, Bemo and other similar types.

[NeilMac]

Julian,

Thanks for your input on this.

I had forgotten that Greenwich couplers were avaialble for NEM pockets. I had already reject Dapol couplers which are also available for NEM, solely in terms of cost.

I had also seen Peco style couplers converted to magnetic + delayed action by using a wire at one end od a wagon, and magnetic converion at the other. I was planning to try this, but with the thought that to make the delayed action work you would need to engage the magnet, pull back, and then pull forward again all whilst keeping the magnetc active - easier for movable permanent magnets, but not so easy with a push button activated electro magnet.
The other method I was think about for Peco coupling was magentic at one end and a tongue - DG style - at the other. This could be a brass strip soldered to a cut down loop, or the same effect could be got simply be filling in the loop so the coupler can not fall down over the pin of the opposite wagon, and the loop of that one would always go under. This would allow remote uncoupling to be actioned by a tap of an electromagnet with moving the train.
With so many options I can see plenty of testing to find firstly methods that work, and then determine which is best and can be most easily be applied to every wagon I will want to use on the layout.

[NeilMac]

Work on a different wagon to my last update;

This is based on a Bachmann N gauge 40' composite gondola body.

The first image is actually from earlier, not the sawing session with the two bodies in the last update. Here the body is cut down to only what will be kept, so cut in half and with the ends fully removed and discarded.




More up to date now I have added a new floor to set the sides to the width for the 009 version. This is simply 2mm scribed plasticard glued to the remians of the original floor.
The previous wagon I build from a Bachmann N gauge car - that one an all steel body shell - rode higher than I would have preferred after converion, so for this one I have deliberately not added a second floor below the remains of the orginal one. Hopefully any flexibility in the body shell will be taken up when the ends are fitted.




Not shown, because I have not taken the photos yet, I have started on the replacement ends. These will be plain plasticard which will have half round strip added so as to represent a corrugated steel end.
After that it will just need bolsters and bogies and be ready to run, although will still need detail, paint and lettering to fully complete.

[NeilMac]

Still working a couple of wagons at the moment, but for now just a picture of another OO model I bought while on another trip to Kendal at the weekend for conversion.

I am showing this completely 'before' image because of a discovery I made...




The model is a Hornby rib side van. This is the same as one I have bought previously and is in the process of being converted - purple and white body in the first image on this page, wagon second from left on second row.

As for other OO body conversion I have done I started this earlier rib side van by basically sawing it in half. The exact method of this operation varies from wagon to wagon dependant on two things, first the actual construction, and secondly whether then end are good to reuse or will be cut away and discarded.

However I noticed something on this body that I presumably did not when starting work on the previous one - and that was when I checked the measurments and found that it was only a scale 7 feet. As my fleet already includes several wagons over 6' this means I will be able to build this one without needing to cut up the body. 

[B.Meldon]

I do like these conversions you are doing. I have done a few myself.
There are indeed some standard gauge items that are already the right width for 009 use.
For example the Modelscene BR ConFlat container part number 5010. All that needs is a repaint and some 009 bogies.
However, I think this recently went out of production.
Here is my one that is on bogies each made using two Egger two wheel bogies:

[NeilMac]

Brian,
Thanks for the heads up on the containers.

I had been thinking about a totally freelance container wagon. My first thoughts were for containers about 10' long, so that I could get 2 per wagon. As I was thinking that available containers would be too wide that would mean that I would need to scratch build them. However, if these containers are narrow enough as is then it may be better to design a wagon to carry just one. Just checked and some suppliers still do have them in stock.

As I am typing this I am wondering how wide the shorter containers are (e.g. the Birds Eye livereried ones). I had also assumed these would be too wide, but if not then they could fit 2 per wagon as an alternative arrangement.

[Moxy]

The short containers were 7'6" long by 7'0" wide

Drawings are on the Barrowmore site

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRContainerIssueB.pdf

Hope this helps

[NeilMac]

Still working on adding and detailing the ends on my Bachmann N gauge body conversion, but just noticed I had not added this update for my Dapol Interfrigo kit conversion.



This is not the chassis - this wagon is the right way up! Many years ago I converted one of these, at full length, to HOn30 and did not need to do this step. However the kit I used here had quite badly warped sides out of the packaging. Adding the sides to the chassis straightened the lower edges, but the upper still loooked a bit too wavy to make adding the roof easy, so I added what is in effect a false roof hopeful that this would bring everything back in line. Fortunately it seems to have done the trick.

I am planning to do extra detailing on the doors on this kit. As bought the hinges are oversized to allow the doors to open and close. As I do not want this feature I plan to replace the plastic hinge bars with brass or steel rod, and also replace the oversized hinges with nearer to scale items.

[NeilMac]

A little more progress on a couple of wagons



Finally got the ends on the Bachmann 40' gondola conversion. At the moment these are just plain ends, the detailing will come later. The trick bit here was to get the upper framing to match up to that on the sides. I had thought to add this from microstrip, but when I checked I did not have any in a suitable size so just cut some thin strips from .020" sheet. I added these to the ends that I had cut slightly overwidth then, when the solvent had dried, used wet & dry to trim them to exact width to fit between the ends.

Next step will be adding half round strip - possibly 3 per end - for the same look as the ends I removed to widen the body.




On the GW van conversion - the ends were already adjusted to width and glued, all that was done here was to redo the radius at the top which had been made too pointed during the narrowing process.
The shape of the rear of the sides, which were thicker behind the doors, looked to complicate the process of getting all the pieces together straight and square. I decided the best way would be an .080" strip along the lower edge, which would be attached only to the wider parts and depend on the strength of the thicker strip to keep everything straight.
With this, when I do assemble the sides and ends - using extra square cut pieces to hold the joints square - I should then be able to drop a floor section into each end so that it will just sit on this strip, which will then support the bolsters.

[NeilMac]

Just a little progress on the bachmann 40' composite conversion



Have now completed the ends. Difficult to really see in the grab from a mobile, but the ends which had previously been plain sheet have now been detailed to represnt a pressed steel end. Did this using 3 strips of half round rod at each end. By far the hardest bit here was getting everything level and even with a consistent gap beween each half round strip.


One other purchase I made in readiness for a future wagon as discussed earlier



Was passing through York and could not resist a stop off at Monk Bar models. These were just an impulse purchase ready for a future container wagon. The BR livery will go, but the basic container will not be altered.

I have two thoughts on how I will build these wagons.

Either I could built a flat wagon - wood or steel - and use it to carry one or two containers.

However, until I have checked it, I am not sure what the overall height of this would be, although I think it would be taller than any of my vans.

Hence the alternative, and the reason I bought short containers rather than long, is to build a drop centre wagon to carry just one container. I would see this as something along the lines of the WD drop centre wagon, but with altered proportions to allow the container to fit into the well.

[engerth399]

Have you thought about looking at what the IoMR did when it used containers for a short time in the 1960's?

[NeilMac]

Thanks for the heads up on that. Had not seen those before.

I had been considering all steel construction as an alternative to composite with wood sides. Having seen the photo now I can see how building it this way would create an overall narrower wagon, as the container would be the widest part rather that needing the wagon structure outside of this. As I am already close to my maximum loading gauge I think this may be a better way to go.

[NeilMac]

A bit more progress from a while ago, although I have only just got round to taking the photos. I do keep jumping from wagon to wagon rather than getting the earlier ones completed, however I have just recently taken a delivery of more Peco bogies - I had run down my stock - so can hopefully complete more to a runable state soon.



This is just a floor added to the Triang van conversion, for which I had prepared the side earlier. I plan to create new ends for this van from 2mm scribed sheet, which will match the planking on the van sides.



Jumping in here staring a new model. Removing the chassis was simply a case of freeing the clips, and then removing these clips from the body (so although I did it carefully, there was no real worry if the clips had broken).
For the chassis I first added the .080" square strip along the lower edge. As before, I used square strip because it holds its shape better that .080" x .040" would. Also, it made the next stage more forgiving.
That stage was to add sub floors to each end, just long enough to be able to support the bolsters, which sat on top of the full length strips. These were cut to be good fit for the width of the wagon, and will then rely on being well glued down to ensure they do not start separating years down the line.

The large gap in the floor will later be used to support weight for the wagon - which is another topic;
I subscribe to the theory that good operation is derived from having all wagons similarly weighted (measured in oz per inch), and also that heavy stock will usually track better.
The only caveat to this is that making the stock too heavy may mean that the trains will not run without the loco slipping.
Now, as a small shunting layout, trains length should not be long, and there will be no gradients, both of which are positives. However a negative is that, although I do not know for definate I will use them, I have several Kato 8 wheel chassis (11-105/6/7), and these are 1 axle drive and known for low pulling power. I think running some pulling tests will be needed, once I have sufficent wagons avaialble to prove things either way.