Peco "James"

Dave Cooper · December 29, 2019, 21:09

Thanks Both

Looks like RT Models offer quite a few options, including some for the older '08' chassis. Some machining work may be necessary to make up a complete assembly - I'll have to look into that.

I've recently bought a drill sharpening jig and may have to buy a few reamers, taps etc but, hey-ho...

Best regards,
Dave

Stephen Rainsbury · December 30, 2019, 13:37

Possible donor for Peco James? The linkages etc look right and its going for £25. The body is a bit knackered so no qualms about chopping it up.

MickT · December 30, 2019, 16:04

If that is a Lima, then I think it is tender powered isn't it?

I would not think this one would be suitable to go under a James or a Jeanette.

Mick

JulienW · December 30, 2019, 17:40

As Mick has mentioned if that 0-6-0 tinder loco is one of the Lima models then the loco isn't powered, and though the tender chassis might be useful these are essentially a smaller version of the dreaded 'pancake' motors and (imho) not worth the £25 being asked.

To come back to Stephen's earlier question an inside cylinder loco has the cylinders mounted inside the chassis and behind the wheels out of sight of the casual viewer, along with the valves, valve gear and connecting rod (the one that transfers the thrust from the piston to a wheel) with the coupling rod (the one that takes the power from one wheel to the next) outside the wheels. As can be imagined the 'engine' bit (generally 2 cylinders and their associated valve chests) can get a bit big and space between the backs of the wheels to fit it all in is limited by the gauge, so whilst this is about 4 feet for a standard gauge loco (so you could probably get a pair of cylinders up to 18" internal diameter in the gap) for a narrow gauge loco the space is much less, probably as little as 15" overall. If a loco designer wanted to keep the cylinders out of sight but not be limited to small (7" or less) cylinders they could try to move them up and out of the space between the wheels, but then the boiler would get in the way unless that too was moved up, which moves the Centre of gravity up and makes the narrow gauge loco much less stable. By placing the cylinders and motion outside the wheels it means that bigger cylinders can be used (as there will be more space), and if they need to be moved upwards due to a restricted loading gauge then they will not get in the way of the boiler - look at the ex Penrhyn now Ffestiniog Linda and Blanche (and Charles now at the Penrhyn Castle Museum).

Dave Cooper · December 30, 2019, 19:51

"4547" - I like the look of that wheelset with the coupling rods held on with screws...

Possible conversion : 5-pole motor on the loco chassis, gearbox and pick-ups from the tender, pair of dummy cylinders plus connecting rods (RT Models) - Anyone ?

Turin 60 · December 30, 2019, 20:13

Quote from: GraemeD on December 29, 2019, 19:45
If I recall correctly, the GEM Bagnall "Dennis" loco kit used a similar Grafar 0-6-0 inside frame inside, cylinder chassis. It included etchings for the connecting rods and crosshead mechanism. It was fake in that the piston rod was fixed I think and the crosshead slid back and forth along it.

I have one of these and can say the the piston rod and so on where genuine and moved as they were supposed to.

John Bruce.

Stephen Rainsbury · December 30, 2019, 21:13

Quote from: MickT on December 30, 2019, 16:04
If that is a Lima, then I think it is tender powered isn't it?
I would not think this one would be suitable to go under a James or a Jeanette.

Thanks, Yes it was and I didn't bid for it so no harm done there :-)

Stephen Rainsbury · December 30, 2019, 21:16

Quote from: JulienW on December 30, 2019, 17:40
As Mick has mentioned if that 0-6-0 tinder loco is one of the Lima models then the loco isn't powered, and though the tender chassis might be useful these are essentially a smaller version of the dreaded 'pancake' motors and (imho) not worth the £25 being asked.
To come back to Stephen's earlier question an inside cylinder loco has the cylinders mounted inside the chassis and behind the wheels out of sight of the casual viewer...

Thanks, I wasn't too sure and will probably buy one from N-Drive, once we have cleared the Christmas and Daughters wedding visa bill :-(

B.Meldon · December 30, 2019, 22:15

Quote from: Dave Cooper on December 28, 2019, 20:54
Hi Stephen,

I recently bought this kit (whitemetal) at a show with a view to fitting it to the Graham Farish '08' diesel shunter.

Lovely little chassis but mine has a rather annoying "click" once per wheel rotation (haven't got to the bottom of this yet). Mine was a Christmas present many years ago, but, I think they are quite pricey now - £80-90 ?? I've never seen a used one for sale but they must exist...

It says in the Peco instructions that it will suit this chassis but it may need a little 'tweaking' here and there.

Will let you know how I get on (I think it's next on my build list),

Regards,
Dave

The 'click' could be a snaped plastic gear wheel on the central axle. Sadly this is a common fault with the inside frame version of the GF 08 chassis.

Brian Meldon

Dave Cooper · December 31, 2019, 10:44

Thanks for the tip Brian. The body's coming off anyway for the Peco "James" work.

I'll check the full geartrain while I'm at it...

Regards,
Dave

JulienW · December 31, 2019, 11:18

Quote from: Dave Cooper on December 31, 2019, 10:44
Thanks for the tip Brian. The body's coming off anyway for the Peco "James" work.

I'll check the full geartrain while I'm at it...

Regards,
Dave

If any of the gears have split it's possible to buy replacements from BR Lines. Working from memory the 08 / J94 chassis is a little different to the other chassis in that it has an intermediate gear between the worm and the big gear on the middle axle.

clayliner · December 31, 2019, 15:53

Quote from: JulienW on December 30, 2019, 17:40
By placing the cylinders and motion outside the wheels it means that bigger cylinders can be used (as there will be more space)

Sometimes quite a lot bigger! -

FSG No7

- though here you'll notice that they don't necessarily have to be the same size. Though they almost always are - this is a compound loco so there is a small high pressure cylinder and a bigger low pressure one, which is pretty unusual. The valve chests are above the cylinders. [FSG loco No. 7, Spain]

David.

Stephen Rainsbury · December 31, 2019, 18:06

I hope this fits, I just bought it on eBay for £20. The listing just says Graham Farrish 0-6-0 so not necessarily an exact fit, but its a start. If not I can use that on another project. :D

It is sold as a non-runner, the motor turns but the wheels don't so there is still a bit of work to do, but at least I can start fitting the body to it.

duttonbay · January 01, 2020, 07:13

Quote from: clayliner on December 31, 2019, 15:53
... this is a compound loco so there is a small high pressure cylinder and a bigger low pressure one, which is pretty unusual...

I thought this was the common arrangement for a 2-cylinder compound. Perhaps the only way it can work. A quick google search doesn't bring up anything for "FSG loco No 7 Spain" so maybe this is an articulated loco, in which case I would agree that it is unusual.

clayliner · January 01, 2020, 10:45

Sorry - I didn't make myself clear. What I meant to suggest was that it wasn't common on small narrow gauge locos of the sort I think we have in mind here (like 'James'). Clearly there are n-g compounds and yes, the HP and LP cylinders would normally be different sizes on any compound loco, I presume.

(This Krauss 0-6-2T was originally from the Castellon line in Spain and moved to the San Feliu to Gerona line in 1965, joining other locos of similar but simple (i.e. non-compound) design already in use there.)

Hope this clarifies things and apologies for the confusion!

David.