Using N gauge wagons for 009?

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Is there any reason why second hand N-Gauge open wagons couldn't be modified to run on 009?

Several of them seem to be very similar in dimensions to 009 ones, so a "quick" refit with Bemo or Greenwich couplings, lose some of the brakes and ladders etc that look a bit wrong and a repaint, would seem to give reasonable freelance models, or am I missing something?

[JulienW]

The main issue is going to be the difference in scales, N being 2mm (or there about) to the foot and 00 being 4 mm to the foot. You would be right to remove ladders and the like which would look obviously under scale, but there are other things to consider, like the width of planks making up the sides of the wagon and those on the N scale models being too small (only an inch or so if scaled up,to full size), and the height of vans (and the doorways to get goods in and out).

I'm not saying it will not work, but put an N scale wagon against even a small 009 one and the differences will be obvious.

As an alternative suggestion why not use the chassis of the N scale wagons (if you can get them cheeply enough) and scratch build your own bodies from plasticard (styrene sheet)?

An open wagon is essentially a lidless box on wheels made up of 5 basic parts (floor, 2 sides, 2 ends) with vans being a little more complex in that you'd need to cut the top edge of the ends to a curve then curve some of the styrene sheet to match to make the roof but they are also boxes.

If you do go down the scratchbuilding route it's best to get a couple different thicknesses of plasticard/styrene sheet, say 30 or 40 thou (thousandths of an inch, 40 thou is essentially 1mm) to make the floors and 20 thou to make the sides/ends, with some 10 thou to make roofs.

You can get plastic sheet that has been embossed with plank lines (some of the better stuff can be found in the 'evergreen' range made in the US but reasonably easy to get over here), but given that the planks making up the floor tend to be wider (say 9 - 12") than those used to build the body (3-6") and the sheets themselves tend to be only available in the 40 thou thickness (which can make wagon sides look a bit fat) you may not want to go down the route of getting to much variety of materials.
That being said though as a sheet of plasticard/styrene is unlikely to set you back more than £5 for an A4 sized bit you'll get quite a number of body parts out of it, probably enough for quite a fleet of wagons!

It just needs a sharp craft knife (I use scalpels), a metal strait edge and something 'square' to make sure your right angles are 'right', and I'd suggest using  one of the liquid styrene solvents over the goop in the tubes. Another tip to pass on is don't feel you need to use the first bit that you cut, because the material is so cheep it's better scrapping a wrong one and making a new bit to replace it tha ruining the whole model with a part that isn't square, or the wrong size...

Hope that helps.

[Hobby]

A better bet is to look out for old Triang TT stock and use the bodies off them if you can get them cheap enough. Many of us have done that.

[Dave Cooper]

Hi Stephen - an interesting topic.

Regrettably, I sold all my TT stock years ago. As Hobby suggests, this would have now come in very handy for 009 !

At a show I picked up some N gauge chassis for just a few pounds to experiment with. I have only scratch built one wagon body so far - so, I'm no expert :

I used 3 x 3 mm strip wood for the floor, ends and sides. After making a quick design on graph paper to check sizes etc. I cut all the pieces to size and butt-glued them along their lengths. A couple of central vertical supports on the ends and same on the sides plus four diagonal braces completes the illusion.

Mods : The truck runs very nicely but will easily tip over if provoked ! I'm going to epoxy a metal washer under the chassis to add a bit of running weight. (I think the epoxy should completely cover the underside of the weight if you're planning to use Greenwich-style uncoupling). It looks a bit 'posh' for a quarry type of layout so, I'll probably dirty it up a bit.

Remember that most NG lines were constructed 'on-the-cheap' from whatever could be sourced locally, so pretty much anything goes design-wise...that's the beauty of 009 !
Dave

[clayliner]

Apart from 'proper' plastic sheet today £5 a go we are surrounded by plastic in a wide variety of shapes and sizes, all of which ends up in landfill or the oceans. So you could try something like margarine tubs for sheet plastic, and score planks on at whatever distance you need with a sharp knife. Keep your eyes open for recyclable plastics!

A nice metal N gauge chassis will probably be a smooth runner already because of its weight, but as Dave says it's easy to add weight underneath (which will also improve stability).

Frugally yours,

David.

[Stephen Rainsbury]

... but there are other things to consider, like the width of planks making up the sides of the wagon ..

I agree, the ones I am looking at have metal sides, and the height of teh body is pretty much the same on of my 009 trucks, although rivets might look a bit weedy by comparison.

As an alternative suggestion why not use the chassis of the N scale wagons (if you can get them cheeply enough) and scratch build your own bodies from plasticard (styrene sheet)?

Thats a good idea, I hadn't considered that but there are some truly hideous models on eBay that could have salvageable chassis

If you do go down the scratchbuilding route it's best to get a couple different thicknesses of plasticard/styrene sheet, say 30 or 40 thou (thousandths of an inch, 40 thou is essentially 1mm) to make the floors and 20 thou to make the sides/ends, with some 10 thou to make roofs.

I already have suitable tools and a reasonable stock of the original plasticard sheet and strip from when I used to kit bash SciFi models from cheap aircraft and boat kits, including a pristine A4 sized sheet of scribed sheet just right for 6" planks :-)

Thanks, I hadn't considered that option, but it makes sense.

[Stephen Rainsbury]

A better bet is to look out for old Triang TT stock and use the bodies off them if you can get them cheap enough. Many of us have done that.

I feel almost guilty about chopping up TT gauge, it seems so rare nowadays, it would be like skinning a Panda to make keyfobs for the World Wild Life Foundation :-)
I will keep my eyes out though

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Remember that most NG lines were constructed 'on-the-cheap' from whatever could be sourced locally, so pretty much anything goes design-wise...that's the beauty of 009 !
Dave

Thanks Dave, I hadn't considered that aspect, but I like it.
I guess I always had that making SciFi models, nobody could tell you that it was wrong and the more obscure the shape the better as people were less likely to recognize it and spoil the illusion.
It feels almost like going on holiday and letting everything slow down for a bit :-)

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Apart from 'proper' plastic sheet today £5 a go we are surrounded by plastic in a wide variety of shapes and sizes, all of which ends up in landfill or the oceans. So you could try something like margarine tubs for sheet plastic, and score planks on at whatever distance you need with a sharp knife. Keep your eyes open for recyclable plastics!
David.

Thanks David, I am always on the lookout for stuff that can be reused, but we already try to avoid unnecessary plastic so its not often that we find something, however I do have a pile of CDs that I have been moving into wallets to save space, leaving some quite brittle buts still useful plastic sheet behind.

[Alan Feldon]

brittle plastic is a bit of a no no -its brittle !
Don't sink the ship for an appoth of tar .
Its more difficult to cut brittle plastic ,you really need a razor saw .
If you dont have a local model shop then Hattons have three different thicknesses of plasticard and their postage to me in Greece was £1.50 .
I wouldn't have qualms about TT wagons -if they are in the 50p box of a dealer then they are not being venerated anyway,and you get far better detail than i could put on a scratchbuilt wagon .

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Its more difficult to cut brittle plastic ,you really need a razor saw .
I can see yourpoint but I have been using CD cases for years, especially the grey bit inside. I tend to score and snap then file rather than actually cut, the once over with 240 grade wet and dry paper to get a good paintable surface. :)

I wouldn't have qualms about TT wagons -if they are in the 50p box of a dealer then they are not being venerated anyway,and you get far better detail than i could put on a scratchbuilt wagon .
Sadly no model shop around here that sells railway bits, all RC aircraft, live steam or toy shops

Thanks Alan.

[Hobby]

I wouldn't have qualms about TT wagons -if they are in the 50p box of a dealer then they are not being venerated anyway,and you get far better detail than i could put on a scratchbuilt wagon .

As Alan says, there are plenty of collectors out there and they have nabbed all the decent TT stuff for their collections so what's left is the crud! BTW I mentioned Triang but from time to time you also see some Berliner-Bahn BTTB and Zeuke TT stuff, the bodies off the four wheel stock make some nice unusual variations being German prototypes. The seller at the toyfairs may try to say they are rare collectors items but that's bo**ocks as they are ten a penny (literally) over in Eastern Europe so make him a bid and grab the box!

Some of the Playcraft British "HO" range can also be used!

[Dave Cooper]

A quick tip :

Dug out my one scratch-built 009 wagon today and decided that the upper planks looked a bit over-scale.

With a small needle file, I put a 45 degree chamfer on the inside edges reducing the 'apparent width' from 3mm to about 2mm (they were made from 3 x 3mm strip wood).

They now look much better and just need a touch of paint to finish...(about 5 min's work all in !).
Regards,
Dave

[Stephen Rainsbury]

As Alan says, there are plenty of collectors out there and they have nabbed all the decent TT stuff for their collections so what's left is the crud!

So TT uses 12mm, I use 9mm so I would have to lose 3mm from the middle of the chassis and retrofit with new wheels and couplings?

[Retiarius]

Or use Bemo H0m wheelsets. They can be squeezed in to 9mm because they sold the same models in both 12mm H0m and 9mm H0e.