Using N gauge wagons for 009?

[JulienW]

So TT uses 12mm, I use 9mm so I would have to lose 3mm from the middle of the chassis and retrofit with new wheels and couplings?

Not necessarily!

If you measure the width of the stock in proportion to the track gauge most narrow gauge stock is wider than standard gauge stock (something like 2 ½ to 3 times (or more) for NG, and maybe 2 for U.K. Std gauge). Also, in moving the smaller scale wagon from 3 mm to 4 mm scale the effective size (i.e. If the model was blown up to full size) is reduced by 25%. To work that through if we take something 12 mm wide (the maths is easier if nothing else!) made for the 3 mm scale market it would scale up to be 4 feet wide in real life, yet the something made to be 12mm wide on a 4 mm scale item would be 3 feet wide in real life.

If you wanted to use the chassis from a TT (3mm scale) wagon then at 12 mm gauge it will be too wide to run on the 9 mm gauge track used in 009. Whilst it is possible to narrow down the chassis the effort involved in getting the 2 halves back together again keeling things square, and also narrowing the axles to suit probably isn't worth it considering the ease which an N gauge chassis can be fitted (and it would be easier to make a short N gauge chassis longer compared to making a TT one narrower) or equally one of the 009 wagon underframe kits could be used. You could also go down the route Retiarus suggests by fitting re-gauged (or regaugeable) wheelsets.

With my own modelling I've used a couple of TT kits as wagon bodies for 009 without narrowing them, and with the little bit OOn3 modelling I also do - that's 4 mm scale models of 3' gauge railways using 12 mm gauge track - the TT running gear often gets a second life too, but then that's another kettle of fish, and I don't want to get bogged down in all the variety of scale/gauge combinations that the 009 Society covers under its 'small scale narrow gauge' umbrella.

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Or use Bemo H0m wheelsets. They can be squeezed in to 9mm because they sold the same models in both 12mm H0m and 9mm H0e.

That is useful to know, I can feel a jig coming on. :-)

[Hobby]

I don't think you can use Bemo wheelsets on the TT stuff I was talking about Retiarius. The normal way to do it is to throw away (or on-sell!) the chassis from the TT wagon and use the body on an N gauge chassis. You can narrow them if you wish but you often don't have to as many narrow gauge wagons were wide in real life. On NGRM Forum there's a thread devoted to people using standard gauge wagon bodies from a different scales, it is well worth a read for you Stephen.

[Retiarius]

The Bemo wheelsets have pinpoint ends, I don't know if the TT wagons do or not.  I am using a Peco 15ft n gauge chassis under a small H0 scale Fleischmann hopper wagon.

[Hobby]

They are not made by the same manufacturers so could be different axle lengths. Bemo wheelsets aren't cheap either. Most of the TT stock from the manufacturers I mentioned use plastic wheels on metal axles and aren't able to be regauged. The cheapest and most practical route is simply for replace the TT chassis for an N gauge one...

[Retiarius]

If Stephen wishes I will send him a couple of Bemo wheelsets to try.  He can pm his address via this forum.

[Alan Feldon]

I think we are overcomplicating this for Steven who wants to know if he can use n chassis for 009 wagons and the answer is YES
The suggestion to use TT bodies (not chassis ) was to provide ready made vans/wagons which could be fitted to the N gauge chassis.I would suggest Toy fairs to source these ,and as Blair has suggested remove the bodies and throw away the TT chassis .You might find some TT bodies too long for short N chassis so just cut these in half and stick one half to each end of the underside of the body.
A lot of members retain the N couplings to run wagons in rakes merely replacing this with an 009 coupling at each end (saves money as well ! )
If I can find some I have done I will attempt to post photos hereon .

[Stephen Rainsbury]

If Stephen wishes I will send him a couple of Bemo wheelsets to try.  He can pm his address via this forum.

Thanks, I am looking at some TT gauge items at the moment, if I win I will drop you a line and thanks again for the kind offer.

[Stefan Krebs]

Dear Stephen,

I use the N-gauge Fleischmann (GFN) ERZ IIId (as they are functional),  the Arnold PS 4 hopper (for the same reason) and some bogie tank wagons for H0i (on 6.5mm track). As I use Bemo in H0e N-gauge stock looks tiny-winzy, but for industrial narrow gauge I'm content with it.  These vehicles are narrower than ROCO or Eggerbahn V-skips, i.e. rather too narrow for 9mm track.
I had GFN, Arnold, and Minitrix tipper wagons, and as they are non-prototypical crude toy vehicles they look okay (Arnold is best); best of all they are not too far off some 2-foot heavy duty prototypes (no, not all V-skips had oblong frames  ;)).

TT-gauge I use for H0e, but they are somewhat small compared with Liliput Austrian narrow gauge, which is rather smallish compared to Bemo. As already pointed out, the art is removing any scale-identifiers (ladders, handrails etc.) and replace them with 00-scale items. As )) is considerably larger than H0 I would suggest looking at TT is the better option. I have the BTTB (now Tillig) bulk ore dump car (similar to an ERZ IIId (again, because it's functional), a rake of Triang hoppers, Triang and BTTB oil tankers, and the Tar wagon (track cleaner). To me the TT-chassis are the preferred choice for scratch-building, I consider the N-gauge chassis too small, even for smallish narrow gauge. This needs considering, all the more as 00 is markedly bigger than H0. You although need to bear in mind that, unless you have a common carrier operation, narrow gauge stock does not have the sophisticated axle guidance and suspension.


Cheers
Waldschrat


Cheers
Waldschrat

[Stephen Rainsbury]

... narrow gauge stock does not have the sophisticated axle guidance and suspension.

Thanks :)

[Hobby]

It's worth bearing in mind that if you use the Zeuke/BTTB/Triang TT wagons the overhang will cover up any faults with the chassis, and if you really want to you can always use a sharp craft knife to "simplify" the running gear down to just the axle box. i agree with L about getting rid uf under scale detail such as ladders and whatever you do don't try to use TT coaches, they just don't work in OO9!

I'd suggest we are starting to go round in circles and as Alan has pointed out are also over-complicating what is a very simple subject. Very early on I mentioned a thread on NGRM which shows people who have used SG wagons in narrow gauge. As Stephen is a member on there I've sent him a link by PM.

[Hobby]

May i say something without meaning any offence, Stephen. From your posts on here and NGRM it would seem you are using a "scatter-gun" approach to starting up in OO9 modelling. You seem to have bought several unrelated items (that Decauville and some HOe items as well as OO9 ones from what you've said) and may be continuing to do so. That is a guaranteed way to waste money!

May I suggest that you stop, step back, and have a good look on the two forums and also on the internet and see what sort of layouts and stock you like before buying anything else. Then get rid of the stuff you don't like. If you can make it to a narrow gauge show in the UK where the OO9 second hand stall is that would be a good idea. That will show you what's available and also the going prices and locos bought from them will work! The next one I think will be Irton in January.

[Stephen Rainsbury]

May i say something without meaning any offence, Stephen. From your posts on here and NGRM it would seem you are using a "scatter-gun" approach to starting up in OO9 modelling. You seem to have bought several unrelated items (that Decauville and some HOe items as well as OO9 ones from what you've said) and may be continuing to do so. That is a guaranteed way to waste money!

You missed facebook groups. :-)

My main interest, even from my SciFi model days, has always been scratch building/restoring models that I like as I like them with no real thread, often inspired by something I found cheap in a bargain bin somewhere, so my approach to Model Railways was always going to be the same.  I am very much a visual learner I read in several places that H0e and 009 were freely interchangeable, but it wasn't until I actually had some examples in front of me I realized that for me it could be an issue.

The Decauville stuff is a for purely sentimental, what I haven't mention is that I have been quietly collecting other items of rolling stock well under normal eBay prices, and although I want it to work it will only ever be lightly restored back to factory condition. Except the loco, that was just a scratch rebuild that took my fancy, but so far that has only cost £18.

The rest of my second hand stuff was well under £50, and has given me good insight to how things work, so not a big price to pay.

As for everything else, locos, track, rolling stock kits, they are all looking good and I am happy with them all which is why I haven't mentioned them, but thanks for the concern.  Once I have the overall plan for my layout completely clear I will certainly be sharing it.

[MickT]

If you can make it to a narrow gauge show in the UK where the OO9 second hand stall is that would be a good idea. That will show you what's available and also the going prices and locos bought from them will work! The next one I think will be Irton in January.

Blair:

All of your advice that you have offered to Stephen is sound and I agree fully, but a quick correction is required here:
Irton is in Eskdale, Cumbria - don't go there in January looking for 009 Sales!! I think you mean the annual SWOONS members day in January at Ilton, in Somerset!

However, the next outing of the Society Sales is a bit nearer than that - Colehill near Wimborne, Dorset on Saturday 7 December. There is an advert for the event in the current issue of 009 News. I've already PM'd Stephen on "the other forum" with details of that one.

Mick

[Stephen Rainsbury]

However, the next outing of the Society Sales is a bit nearer than that - Colehill near Wimborne, Dorset on Saturday 7 December. There is an advert for the event in the current issue of 009 News. I've already PM'd Stephen on "the other forum" with details of that one.
Mick

Thanks for that, sadly as much as I would love to go to both of these events my daughter is getting married and apparently I am supposed to set all of December aside in case something needs to be done.
Having said that there is the Bexleyheath one two miles from my brothers house on December 15th so I am hoping to "pop out for a minute" to that one.