Suggestions for a visit to the UK

[Paul Alliet]

My wife and I are considering a visit to the UK (from the US), probably in August or September of this year.  The main objective (mine, at least!) is to see narrow gauge railways, prototype and (if possible) model.  We would welcome suggestions as to what is especially worthwhile visiting.  At this point, we're planning on relying on public transportation rather than car rental.  At this point we're thinking of a stay in the 10 to 14 day range, but there is some flexibility in that.  Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome.

Paul

[Tom Haythornthwaite]

I recommend two or three days based in Porthmadog - that gives you two and a half railways radiating from there and more that you can get to by 'regular' train.

Bon voyage!

[JulienW]

Another suggestion that may help with planning is to take a look at the events section of the UK Model Shops Directory website that will give you an indication of model railway events taking place when you plan to visit.  As a quick foretaste August 3rd sees the first Stratford on Avon Industrial & Narrow Gauge show, August 17th is the Wiltshire Group's biennial members day at Pewsey and for full size railways I would recommend a visit to the Statfold Barn Railway open day on September 7th (though I'd also recommend getting tickets in advance for Statfold which are available through their website).

Stratford should be fairly easy to get to as it seems to be quite popular with tourists - something to do with some chap called William Shakespeare's (whoever he is ::) ) and Pewsey has a railway station though I'm not sure how well it is connected to the UK network or how frequent the service is.

Statfold is a bit harder to get to but there may be a shuttle bus from the nearest station (Tamworth?) laid on for the event, though I've been told the walk alongside the canal to get there is quite pleasant (assuming the weather is with you).

[Hobby]

Using Public Transport will severely limit you. With a car you'd have no problem visiting North Wales and seeing the Welshpool (en route!), Tallylyn, Festiniog/Welsh Highland, Bala Lake, Snowdon Mountain and Llanberis railways in three days, though fitting a trip on all of them may be pushing it, though if you only did either the Festiniog OR the WH you could probably do it as the rest don't take too long! Without a car you'd struggle to do more than two or three if those three days included travel to/from somewhere else.

My advice would be to hire a car for the days you intend to visit the railways and make a long weekend of it in North Wales!

[B.Meldon]

Porthmadog is the obvious location.
However, it will take you the best part of a whole day by train from London just to get there. It will also cost you about

[Hobby]

Personally I think there are far more interesting tings to do than spend a whole day on one line, there's the first Preserved railway and NG Museum nearby, one of the few Common Carrier narrow gauge lines still running, a Mountain Railway and a slate museum with ng railway attached... I just don't understand this fixation with the FR/WHR. And if you have a car there's the chance of a visit to one of the original tourist NG railways as well at Aberystwyth... But that's me, I prefer to see more railways than spend several hours just doing one railway to the detriment of seeing any others...

[Stefan Krebs]

May I chip in as an Alien living in the UK, but one with a heavy narrow gauge leaning?   ;D

Let's work down your list, assuming you'll arrive in London and have not been to the UK before:

Some basics: the UK is small, the longest you can drive in one direction, John O'Groats (Scotland) to Land's End (Cornwall) is just over 1 000km (about 700miles for Imperialists ;D), and nowhere are you more than about 100km (70miles) from the coast. Okay, add some ferries, and you can travel quite a bit further.
However, it's a bit cramped, and travelling by car you expect to average only about 30km/h (40 for motorways only journeys) due to holdups, which are frequent. I always have to reset my navi when I go to, or come from the continent, where you achieve higher averages.

Trains...
are a nightmare, and buying tickets is only for the expert wizard, as it is often cheaper to buy tickets for stages of your journey, rather than 1 ticket all the way. Buying on the day is expensive, e.g. London to Bristol (~120km) is about

[Neil McGrath]

If you are staying in London there is one narrow gauge railway that you could visit. It is not your typical narrow gauge line but could be an interesting visit.

https://www.postalmuseum.org/discover/attractions/mail-rail-exhibition/

Neil

[Hobby]

Plus there's a couple in easy reach in Kent, plus a couple of interesting SG lines which used to be Light Railways and a 15" line not far away if you decide to stay in London, all could be done as day trips!

https://bwlr.co.uk/
http://www.sklr.net/
https://www.rhdr.org.uk/


Leprechaun, GB might be small by US and European standards but the OP is only staying for 10-14 days so just travelling round the UK will take quite some time, especially bearing in mind how busy and slow the motorways are over here compared with Germany and the like. Buying railway tickets is not a nightmare either though to get to many places by train or bus is a non-starter if you have to travel longer distances (over 100 miles). The original suggestion by Tom of North Wales is a very good one, it allows them to stay in a very nice part of the country for a few days and they can visit several narrow gauge lines of different characters at the same time, hence I'd agree with him that's it's a good base for a few days after they've "done" the usual non-railway hotspots if they have the time... TBH 10-14 days is a very short period of time to even see the main places of interest in the UK without adding such things as railways on top of them! At least a month would be better thus not having to dash from one place to another...

Regarding a car, I've found that the best bet is to hire an automatic, that way you don't have to worry about changing gear and can concentrate of staying on the correct side of the road!


Just one other thing, as far as I was aware the Festiniog was built as a slate line, whilst it might of branched out in later years it didn't start that way, the Welshpool was built and run as a common carrier...

[MickT]

Just 2 responses to Leprechaun's very comprehensive piece above:

If you can get from John O'Groats to Lands End in "just over 700 miles" then I think you must be doing it by helicopter as the shortest and quickest route (which I have done several times both ways) as stated on Google Maps direction finder is 837, so if you are planning to fit that little trip in, then factor in the cost of the fuel as well as the time it will take to do it, which is why we have Google Maps as our "friend" when planning such things!

On cars and driving - yes, driving over here is quite different to driving in the USA - not mentioned are that we have roundabouts instead of intersections (cross roads to most of us) - much safer as stats show, but ensure that you find out what the rules and conventions are for getting across them before you launch yourself in your hire car!

Most cars nowadays are fairly common territory - we drive around in the same German and Japanese tin cans that you do with the obvious difference that we drive on the historically correct side of the road and vehicles are right hand drive. What was not emphasised is that automatic cars are very much in the minority here compared to the States and most if not all of our transatlantic cousins that I know (quite a lot actually) are not used to manual gear changing at all - so you have two things to consider - learn to use manual gear changing before you come over or be prepared to have to search or book well in advance if you want to hire an automatic car, many car hire firms don't keep them lined up as not many people want to hire them, you need to give adequate advance notice to ensure that what you want will be available when you get off the plane.

The other and very relevant point I would highlight about driving on this side of the pond is - be very aware of the cost of the fuel, it is around 4 or 5 times more expensive than you are used to. What we pay for a litre (just over 2 pints if you like) is comparable and possibly more expensive than what you pay for a (US) Gallon. Just about every petrol station is self service, I don't actually know of any currently that fill your tank for you, wash the screen and check the oil etc as in the good old days and over here, which is something that confuses many tourists from overseas, we fill the tank and THEN go to the kiosk and pay for it, not the other way round that you may be used to.

Best advice I have read above bearing in mind the length of your stay over here and the time of year is to get yourself to North Wales and base yourself there for the period that you want to take in the NG railway scene. There's also lots of American-friendly history and non-railway tourist attractions in that area - loads of castles etc!

One other thing from recent memory of having to rescue a transatlantic visitor, sorry if this is teaching granny to suck eggs - you don't have chip and pin credit and debit cars, we do - universally and if you haven't got yourself equipped with a compatible card you may well, almost certainly in fact, experience problems in finding somewhere that will accept your cards - Mastercard or Visa are essential!

Enjoy - but I think the words of others have given a clear message - do advance research and plan ahead!

Mick

[Hobby]

I'd agree manuals are more common, but all the major companies do autos, you can't usually get the small ones (Polo/Fiesta size) but Golf sized ones are available though you'll pay a few quid more. There's price comparison sites around and it's well worth looking at them, I couldn't find a small auto for David and my jaunt around Germany next week but a search on a comparison site came up with a small auto (BMW 1 Series "or similar") from one of the companies based at Schonefeld Airport that didn't show on their own website!! (Though i expect I'll get something slightly larger when we turn up on the day!!)

[Stefan Krebs]

Dear Hobby,

By and large I fully agree with you, and that's why I went to great detail on Wales, adding detail to support Tom's suggestion. At the same time, even if you're a die-hard narrow gauge aficionado, you don't want to miss the castles and other attraction that are along the way!

I expect, from past experiences, that Paul most likely can't drive stick-shift anyway; but the stick (or whatever you call it) for an automatic is on the other side too.    ;D
I just bought my first automatic (due to my disability; not a problem for me as I worked in a garage, i.e. drove everything in the past), but the mere thought of having to drive it causes SERIOUS panic attacks to my dear one! It's not as simple as you think for stick-shift only drivers!
However, automatic are readily available from all hirers, but the requirement must be identified at the time of booking.

I also disagree regarding Germany, yes your average speed on motorways is about 80km/h, but off the piste the average speed has dropped substantially in the last 15 years; thanks to the powers of the green parties, i.e. speed restrictions and roundabouts in A-roads. Obviously they think more pollution is good for the environment. My hometown has been bankrupted and turned into a ghost town by 25 years of green-party rule; so we can discuss that elsewhere, if you like. Germany might be 'ahead' in some ways, but not necessarily in a good way!
But go to Austria or Switzerland, and your average speed is about the same as in the UK, or Wales for that matter. We are not as bad as some might think!
Especially, as the US occupational forces in their private cars were (and still are, though not occupational anymore   ;D) always mobile road blocks on German motorways (causing serious accidents); I'm not sure they actually can cope with faster motorways than in the UK???

I'm disabled, and I looked at rail travel, in essence the situation here in the UK is a denial of service, you're not even guaranteed your seat if you book one, and, apart from quite a few operators refusing to carry disabled outright, you're not even guaranteed to get on or off the train, whether pre-booked or not. And that's before discussing timeliness, making connections (rather not), 'train substitution coaches' (which leave disabled behind), standing all the way due to insufficient seat numbers, etc.. If that is not a nightmare, and a massive abuse of the term 'service', I don't know what is?

But, as I said, my intention was to put some detail to the suggestions made here that help Paul to plan their holiday. Of course, if he sends me an PM, or posts more specific details and questions here, we can help him better.

What was the title of Bill Bryson's best known book: 'Notes from a small island' (Paul, I take it, you have read this; essential, before you travel! Everything true and current, I can confirm from my own experience!)
The AA tells me: John O'Groats - Lands End:
837,5miles and 14hr 34min (average 58.4miles/hr);
Hobby, I don't think that's bad, but I agree it could be better, and is probably rather optimistic; I would have guessed around 22hr. Yes Mick, that was straight line as I was talking country-size, not journey.    :laugh:

Mick, the problem is not so much roundabout versus cross-roads, it's the direction signs: at the first sign you get long-distance destinations (just once, you missed it, you had it), at the roundabout/ intersection you only get local destinations (which are meaningless and irrelevant; the locals normally know where they go, but the foreigners now get lost as most of these destinations are not on the road maps). That inconsistency is an absolute nightmare for foreigners, especially, as every local authority has its own spin on the general rule, i.e. different destinations!

Mick, that's a very valid point: I just cancelled my American Express card as it is useless in Europe! Make sure you have the right card(s). And mastercard UK is not fully compatible with mastercard Europe either, so beware. I usually pay cash ONLY, and use my cards on tellers only. That minimises the fraud risks, as well as minimising the compatibility problems (and the resulting embarrassment)!



Anyway, just some more food for thoughts
Waldschrat

[Paul Alliet]

Just to clarify a couple of points: My wife and I are both (unfortunately) of the generation which learned to drive manual transmissions.  We just traded in our most recent manual transmission car last July, so the skills are still there, although we're used to shifting gears with the right hand.  Our area of the US (Wisconsin) has also discovered roundabouts, and is installing them in many locations, although we're used to going counter-clockwise around them.  One of the reasons for thinking of traveling by train is that I like trains!

Ten to fourteen days is, indeed, too short a time to "see everything."  (Does anyone remember the old movie, "If today is Tuesday, it must be Belgium" about a package tour of Europe?)  We're content to concentrate on a few things and travel at a leisurely pace.

Finally, thank you for your comments and suggestions.  Anything more would still be welcome.  We are still planning and thinking, though we realize we need to decide what we're doing fairly soon, if we're going to it at all.

Paul

[clayliner]

As Mick T may or may not confirm, should you be tempted to visit the Great Dorset Steam Fair you'd probably want to allow three days: one for the Fair itself, plus one to queue to get there and park up, and best part of a third in the traffic queues getting away afterwards. Mind you, I've not actually been, so maybe I'm paying too much attention to the rumours (or even rumors).

Have a great trip, anyway, wherever you go.

David.

[Graeme Dunbar]

Yes - Tuesday ... Belgium: that is a definite trope and of course you do see tourist pouring out of coaches on for a 30 minute stop somewhere that could take a day or a week and not see anywhere near all there is to be seen. However holidays are short so a balance must be struck.

There are travel passes for visitors that might be worth considering, e.g. https://www.visitbritainshop.com/world/travel-and-transport/britrail-passes/. There are others far more qualified than me here to offer advice.

Some of the best trips I've had have relied on chance. There is always the danger of missing something that could have been seen or done if my research had been better but on the other hand setting out with too much of a prescribed itinerary has lead to disappointment.

If there is one thing I can say it is if you are planning on being in the UK in August/September - avoid the English August Bank Holiday at all costs! It appears to be something of an national obsession and people seem to take masochistic delight in it.  https://publicholidays.co.uk/summer-bank-holiday/

Bearing in mind the warnings about opening of various attractions "out of season" it could well be wise to avoid the school holiday dates:
https://publicholidays.co.uk/school-holidays/england/