Suggestions for a visit to the UK

[MickT]

As Mick T may or may not confirm, should you be tempted to visit the Great Dorset Steam Fair ..................

This year it is Thurs 22 to Mon 26 August. I am anti-biased because I live in a market town of 8000 souls just 2 miles from the steam fair location which attracts a quarter of a million visitors with over 50000 of them being resident for the 5 days. Totally clags up the roads for miles around, the police have an annual "turkey shoot" with their radar guns and impose 20 and 30 mph limits on the surrounding roads for a couple of miles before and after the location - the result is that the local hard working people trying to get to and from their daily toil sit in traffic snarl ups for half an hour or more at the morning and evening peak times, get past the entrance gate and floor the accelerator in relief only to be caught by the police for speeding - cunning ba--t--ds - but I suppose they have to fund their Christmas party and bonuses somehow................

Anyway, as a local and having been to the fair, I join the other locals and either get out of town for the duration or stay at home and protect my property from the hordes of pikeys and others who descend on the town looking for quick tarmacing and hedge cutting etc jobs and regrettably some of them looking for criminal activity opportunities, whilst any chance of getting a takeaway at the local chippy, pizza palace or kebabery is futile as you can guarantee that there will be half a dozen people ahead of you who are doing bulk orders for half the camp site.

However........ it is genuinely well worth a visit, it is not so bad as Clayliner thinks in getting in - as long as you have purchased advanced tickets online, just bad for the honest local folk who may need to get from and to Salisbury. Once in, it is a memorable occasion, the biggest gathering of steam road engines of all shapes and sizes as well as vintage vehicles, steam powered huge funfair and etc etc certainly in Europe and possibly in the world. I would recommend going in the early afternoon to take in the arena activities , the market and the line ups of vintage vehicles and exhibits and stay on into the evening to enjoy the huge range of activities and entertainment. The only problem getting out of the arena is if it is hugely wet (about 1 year in 5 or so), late afternoon when the daytrippers are going home and on the last day - don't go on the last day! If you stay to mid evening then it is no problem getting out. Accomodation no prob, local area hostelries only hike their prices by about 200% or you can pitch your tent on my lawn for 50 quid.....................

If you are genuinely thinking of visiting the fair, then I suggest do it on the Thursday or Friday and book accomodation in somewhere like Salisbury, 20 miles away, which is unlikely to be affected too much by the surge in bookings in the local area. Alternatively, try a PM to Clayliner who has a very nice place on the Isle of Purbeck and would love to get some visitors.

::)

Mick

[Stefan Krebs]

I was at the Great Dorset only about 4 years ago, and we didn't have trouble getting there, or back. I suppose, if you're on holiday, you could travel there in the evening and stay overnight to avoid the morning rush.

As I said, even if you're only peripherically interested I engineering history, a must-see. I agree, travelling on the motorways on that August-bankholiday weekend is something to avoid; every car with a British number plate is on the road then, but country-roads is not too bad.

Paul, good on you, if you can handle stick-shift, and doing it with the other hand is not too bad. My problem, when converting from left-hooker to right-hooker was aiming the corners, the rest is easy. You must be fairly old, I presume; my prejudice goes back to the 1970s, when the occupational forces struggled to get their recruits to drive trucks, double-stick shifting splitter-boxes with double-clutching became a big deal then...    :laugh:

Before we start throwing arbitrarily pages of suggestions around, may I suggest, you let us know where your (both of you) interests are (art, architecture, engineering, stone-age, Celts, Medieval, Victorian, film sets, hiking, cycling, etc.).

If trains are your fancy, fine, go for it, others have survived it too, and the casualty rate is not too bad either...   ;D
This is the country of countries for preservation railways, so finding a steam-ride around the next corner is not a problem; - except maybe inner London.   ;D

All I say is, Great Britain is the country of hedge rows and burins, so don't be disappointed...   :laugh:


Cheers
Waldschrat

[Hobby]

I expect, from past experiences, that Paul most likely can't drive stick-shift anyway; but the stick (or whatever you call it) for an automatic is on the other side too.    ;D
I just bought my first automatic (due to my disability; not a problem for me as I worked in a garage, i.e. drove everything in the past), but the mere thought of having to drive it causes SERIOUS panic attacks to my dear one! It's not as simple as you think for stick-shift only drivers!
However, automatic are readily available from all hirers, but the requirement must be identified at the time of booking.

I also disagree regarding Germany, yes your average speed on motorways is about 80km/h, but off the piste the average speed has dropped substantially in the last 15 years;

I'm disabled, and I looked at rail travel, in essence the situation here in the UK is a denial of service, you're not even guaranteed your seat if you book one, and, apart from quite a few operators refusing to carry disabled outright, you're not even guaranteed to get on or off the train, whether pre-booked or not. And that's before discussing timeliness, making connections (rather not), 'train substitution coaches' (which leave disabled behind), standing all the way due to insufficient seat numbers, etc.. If that is not a nightmare, and a massive abuse of the term 'service', I don't know what is?

I had only driven manual gearbox cars ("stick shift" is the US euphemism!) until a few years ago when my youngest past her test with an auto only licence, as she is the second driver on the Motability car that meant that we've had autos ever since. I only wish I'd used them earlier, compared to a manual an auto is a doddle. I don't understand anyone who has driven manuals being "afraid" of an auto, quite honestly they are far easier. That is why I suggested getting one (especially as being Americans, as you say, they are probably used to them anyhow), it's a lot easier to drive an auto than a manual, once you've put it in gear that's it, you can then concentrate on driving on the correct side of the road without having to worry about gear changes. Having driven 3k plus miles per year in Mainland Europe for the past 20 years I can assure you that driving an auto is much easier than a manual for concentration and therefore safety.

I will agree to differ with you regarding Germany vs UK, I've not noticed any reduction of my average speeds over there in the 20 years I've been driving over there, however that might be because I don't tend to drive as fast as many Germans, I cruise at about 80/85mph (not kph!) and for me the reduction in the lengths of "unlimited" speed section on the Autobahns have made no difference. However getting around over there is a doddle compared with England, the roads are much quieter, mainly because there are more miles of roads to spread the cars out so you don't get the jams you get over here, and especially in the North the side roads are much straighter and allow more overtaking than here in the UK Overall a much nicer experience, more akin to when i started driving back in the 70s when there weren't as many cars around... Those were the days!


Now regarding those so-called "facts" you have given on disabled travel on the railways:

1. If you have booked a seat and you are registered disabled (i.e. have a Disabled Railcard) you ARE guaranteed a seat, that what the wheelchair spaces and Priority Seats are for. If you can't get someone to move then the Guard will move them.

2. No UK rail company can refuse to allow a disabled person to travel, that's the law. However if they turn up without notice and the spaces are already full then they may be directed to another service. Or, in extreme cases the Rail Company will offer to transport them by taxi... Which leads on to:

3. Rail replacement Buses - Most can take wheelchairs, but again if they can't the rail company is obliged to provide a taxi instead. That would also apply if a connection was missed and there was no suitable replacement service within a reasonable period of time.

Unfortunately "turn up and travel" on the railways for those who use wheelchairs and scooters is some way off, though being looked at. The DfT's obsession with Driver Only Trains isn't helping either in that regards which is one of the reasons the Unions are fighting it so strongly. I would accept that travelling on the railways for disabled people isn't the best of experiences but we are trying to make it better but with an antiquated rail infrastructure which wasn't built for disabled people it's taking time. At least our platforms are all at reasonable heights, unlike the rest of Europe and the USA where ground level is far too common!

This might be worth reading for anyone who is disabled and wants to travel by rail in the UK:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/disabled_passengers.aspx


OP, sorry for the thread drift...

[Stefan Krebs]

Dear Hobby,

While I don't disagree with your 'facts' it appears you can use the seats in rail carriages, I can't; - and that makes a lot of difference! Try to book a space for a mobility scooter, my friend, and you will have an, well shall we call it 'interesting' experience. They'll ask you stuff the average scooterista doesn't know, e.g. turning radius!

Driving in Germany, you obviously didn't read my comment properly; but apart from that, half of Europe is on those roads (plus a couple of 10 000 US-citizens), so I haven't noticed those empty roads you mention.   :D

But, as you say, we're off topic, so let's keep it at that.


Cheers
Waldschrat

[Hobby]

OK, I've sent you a PM concerning the rail travel!

[Alan Feldon]

Frankly I cannot see the problem of driving on the other side of the road .When we came to Greece we brought with us our British RHD car and the only problem with this was pulling out to overtake .We then bought a greek registered LHD and swapped driving the cars when we felt like it .The only thing that seemed strange to me at first was at a crossroad turning left behind another car just seemed odd after 42 years of turning right behind a car .
As has been mentioned the controls (apart from hand brake and gear lever ) are the same (apart from some differences with different makes of cars ) although an automatic would be better for someone facing driving on the wrong side for the first time ,and as automatic drivers never seem to use the handbrake -except for parking - no problems there either .Just remember to fill up with petrol NOT gas !
I drove 100,000's of kms in France with a LHD car and ( with the exception of overtaking on non dual carriageways ) never had a problem .
As with driving any strange car you rent just take your time and get used to the car and what it and you can do with it .

[Hobby]

One of those times i wish we had an "agree" button, Alan, says it all!

Perhaps it's best to ask the OP what he was thinking about doing. If he's only here for 10-14 days and also wants to see the (non railway!) sights then that's not a long time at all, we may be a small island but if you have to travel more than about 100 miles travel time will eat up a lot of the holiday which isn't what most people want. Just with the "regular" tourist sites there's easily 14 days worth within London and two hours travel (Windsor, Stratford, etc.) so if it boils down to the odd couple of days free for "railway" interest sights and they are basing themselves in the South East I'd suggest the Narrow Gauge/Light Railways of Kent/Sussex being their best bet.

Paul, what are you planning to see in respect of the "tourist" sights? How long have you got?

[Paul Alliet]

As I said in my original post, my wife and I are planning on visiting the UK with the primary objective of seeing narrow gauge railways.  I'm sure that we will look at some other things, but the primary objective is narrow gauge railways.  We are planning on using public transportation because I (at least) like traveling by train.  We understand that in 10 to 14 days we cannot see everything, and for that reason are hoping to concentrate our attention on certain areas and subjects. 

I see myself referred to as an OP, and have no idea what that means.

Paul

[Stan Williams]

Paul,
You would be better flying into Manchester if you wanted to see the Great Little Trains of Wales.

You could take a train down the Welsh Coast as far as Bangor, there is a bus service to Caernafon right outside the station or you could continue
down to Porthmadog.
FR,  WHR and the WHHR are based in Porthmadog

Snowden Mountain Rly and the Llanberis Lake Rly., are only 6 miles inland from Caernafon ( there is a regular bus service ).
It may come as a shock, but 95% of locals will be speaking Welsh. (this area has a large Welsh speaking population, but they will talk to you ).

You will find all the above up and running, unlike some of the Southern based NG which likely only operate at weekends or vertain times of the year.
Stan.

[Tom Haythornthwaite]

Hi Paul,

I thought your original post (you are the OP or Original Poster!) was quite clear when I proposed Porthmadog in North Wales.  But one thing that has come up is the question of whether you'd prefer to visit more railways without riding on them or fewer with riding on them.  Riding in trains sometimes reminds me of the famous guy who said he liked to eat lunch every day up in the Eiffel Tower because it was the only place in Paris where he wasn't forced to look at the Eiffel Tower.  Either way, Porthmadog could be a wonderful base but the itinerary would vary a bit according to the answer to this question.

Bon voyage!

[B.Meldon]

OP 'Original Poster'. IE you started this thread.

I stick to what I said Porthmadog is the place to stay.

As well as the FR, WHR and WHHR on your door step (two days) you can get the standard gauge train to Tywyn to ride the Tallyllyn (one day).
You can then go to the VOR taking the standard gauge train to Aberystwyth. (One day.)
To do the above I think you will have to ensure you are in Wales on a yellow timetable day on the VOR, it will be a long day but it can be done.

To get to llanberis sadly there is not enough time to use the WHR, you will need to get a Sherpa bus. But again it can be done in a day. It is up to you if you go up Snowdon or on the Lake railway, again it will take a day for each including the Welsh Slate museum when you do the lake railway.

The more I look into this the better it sounds 7 NG railways in 6 days, and all using public transport. It will not be cheap, but it will be good fun!
If you include the trains to get to and from Pothmadog it will be 9 days.

If you go on a peek WHR timetable day you may also have time to go on the 40 min boat trip along the Menai Strait from Caernarfon or look around the Castle as you can have 3 1/2 hours in Caernarfon. (I can recomend both.)

Brian Meldon

[Paul Alliet]

Tom, Stan, and Brian,

Thank you!  This is the type of information I was hoping for when I originally posted.

Paul

[Hobby]

Sorry for use of jargon, as others have said OP is Original Poster!

Your original post said it was your aim to visit the railways but gave the impression that it wasn't necessarily your other half's. If that has now changed then staying on the North wales Coast would be a good base especially if you are not proposing to use a car. Public transport in the UK is just about OK but in areas like North Wales is much slower than a car so you may end up sitting around on a bus or train a lot and thus not seeing some railways if time is tight! Anywhere from Barmouth up to Portmadoc would be a good base as long as you make sure that you are near one of the stations on the coast line. The Vale of Reihdol, Tallylyn, Ffestiniog and WHR are all alongside or very near a railway station. The Welshpool is a mile or so away but is easily walked. For the others you can use a bus.

I'd suggest you get together all the narrow gauge rail timetables and then look at this site to plan your travelling around. That will give you some idea on how it will work:

https://www.traveline.cymru/

[George Surridge]

I can recommend the Penhelig Arms in Aberdyfi, excellent accommodation, and food, railway station within yards linking you to the NG railways with a scenic journey along the coast, including the superb bridge at Barmouth.  I say this as a very happy guest there last year on a railway holiday. Consider paying for a footplate ride on the Tallylyn, wonderful experience and such friendly people there.  ( Book it in advance of course).
Have a good holiday whatever you don
Geo