This forum...

[rod335]

I have to say that I have NEVER heard such an idiotic suggestion as a compulsory survey of the membership. Can we please exist in the real world?

[Chris Ford]

My editorial was really a comment of surprise that as a recent sign up I was slightly disappointed. I don't necessarily think that there are too many forums, but my point is that this is OUR forum - as you say a place to discuss 009 business and to harrang the hapless News editor. We are unique in having the resource, so we as members should gently encourage its use. I think this is, at a basic level, one of publicity and encouragement. It simply does not get mentioned past the early membership stage. From where I'm standing this is a three part game.

1. Make sure everyone knows that it's here and how to sign up.
2. Those that are already on it... use it.
3. Tweek it to improve the interface. Like button; just to know people are reading seems to be a common complaint especially from one guy who grabbed me at Expong who was quite, let's say... definite about it.
Obviously not all 1,800 members will be interested - that's irrelevant, it's not a bean counting excersise. But we should aim to draw in the people who are.

[rod335]

Chris, You can lead a horse to water....

[MickT]

Chris, You can lead a horse to water....

1. Yes indeed Rod, but let's say it how it is - there isn't much actual leading going on from the 009 Towers Executive Boardroom is there? (Refer to my posting above citing just a small selection of "agreed actions" over the past up to 15 years in some cases)

2. Sorry, I don't know how to do a multiple quote in the same reply on this forum:

Chris posted:  "I'm on to it. It does strike me that (sticks neck out) with several hundred pounds worth of desktop publishing software at the Society's disposal, that allowing for some collation of material, a handbook could be knocked up in a month. All it needs is the first part of that to be sorted."

Fantastic Chris, thank you for volunteering..............................

[Elmgate]

In the absence of a "like"button - yes, I have read this, and do read most posts. However, I find the members on here the most argumentative bunch of all, and am thoroughly cheesed off , so prefer NGRMO, where at least there is a little respite!

The fact that I have responded this way shows how even the mildest person can be stresssed beyond restraint.

Tim

[rod335]

As for the Handbook, if I recall correctly, we took a decision that production should be suspended pending the new website so the handbook could be published electronically with constant updating since 009 matters are evolving so quickly at the present time. Any hard copy publication would be out of date in a few months.

Mick, as for your comments, apart from 'more leadership required', which of course is very easy to say, could you make positive suggestions as to the format you and others would like that leadership to take? We do discuss many topics, sometimes in great detail, which are pertinent to the Society but for various reasons they are not and cannot be made public. As far as the MAJORITY of the members are concerned, it seems to me they are only concerned with receiving their 009 News promptly each month and having access to the Sales operation. It is, of course, very easy to demand 'more' without, firstly, having any part of delivering the 'more' and secondly, without specifying what form the 'more' should take.

Regrettably, it seems to me that there is a small but noisy hard core of members who are perpetually complaining that the Society doesn't do enough for them, or in the alternative, exactly what they want, without being prepared to do anything themselves and at the same time complaining about anything and everything that IS being done. I would suggest to you and anyone else for that matter that the vast majority of the membership, which currently stands at marginly under 2000, are actually quite content with matters as they are. I would estimate that those making all the noise probably total less than 15. Do they consider the Society should be run solely in accordance with their attitudes and wishes?  Of course it is relatively easy to stir up discontent amongst the membership with a few suitably worded posts but with respect to all those concerned, that is a rather negative way of going about matters.

[MickT]

I'm sorry Rod, my posting has obviously hit a reactive nerve. I do hope that I am not considered to be one of the 15 or so you allude to that are perpetually moaning and stirring up discontent without offering any positive suggestions. I have made many positive suggestions at AGM's and to committee members directly towards the progress and benefit of the Society and have always tried to keep the managing committee alerted to any feedback that I pick up on my travels around, which I do frequently due I suppose to my "visibility" with my camera, until recently at least when family health matters caused what I hope is only a temporary constraint.

I am very well aware from my own experiences in the Society that there are certain members who are very quick to throw bombs from behind the sofa but are also quick to go to ground and "retreat to the rear ranks" as we used to say in the Service. I am however NOT one of these and am as concerned about the wellbeing of the Society as a whole as I know you are.

In response to your "challenge" to "give some positive suggestions about the format that I would like the leadership to take", I'll offer just 2 to avoid this becoming a long running war of attrition, which I do NOT seek:

1. Communications to the membership. 009 News is the official newsletter of the Society. Often I feel that the NEWS element of it has been forgotten, or at least left to lie fallow. I have no problem with your comment that the Board often meets behind closed doors under Chatham House rules, but how often is at least a summary of progress with ongoing agenda items published in the News? Easy answer - Never! Good example being what you just said about the Handbook being suspended pending the new website. I don't remember this ever being notified to the membership through the News. I remember the new website being reported as "under development" at AGMs annually for several years now, but don't remember any actual progress reports about it. Same goes for all the other agenda items that I mentioned. I'm sure that there is work going on behind the scenes, but don't you agree that it would be good, and may even encourage more to volunteer their skills/services, if all members were aware of developments.

2. Complacency. You said yourself that you consider that the majority of members (and by your own maths in the same posting - inference that just under 2000 members (I think it is currently around 1800), less 15 = a clear majority) - are content and only interested in the regular arrival of the News and access to the sales operation. How do you know? My own observations amongst the membership suggest that of course most of them are content with what they pay their subscriptions for, but there is a significant number who would like to actually see an up to date handbook, a refurbished website (compare ours to both the NGRS and 7mm Assoc websites - we currently come a poor 3rd), regular feedback from the top table in the News etc etc

As there is now a great deal more interest in 009 thanks to the "ready to run revolution" I cannot for example understand why it has been decided at this time of all times, to allow the Trade Liaison Officer post to remain fallow. Surely this is a clear case of "wake up and smell the coffee" isn't it? I feel that as a Society we should be at the forefront of encouraging and developing the hobby - certainly our members who have layouts published in the commercial press are doing an excellent publicity job for the Society and most of them do the Society proud by including the benefits of being a member in their acknowledgements in their articles. Some of our area Groups are also very proactive in publicising the Society, no names no pack drill but we all know there are half a dozen or so, including the one that you are in, who do a really outstanding job of being visible and encouraging membership of the Society.

In this context, a few years ago it was decided (and announced at an AGM, so we did all know about that one!) that publishing a Society advert in Narrow Gauge World had recruited nil members, so the advert would be withdrawn. However, in recent years NGW has gone from strength to strength, has a vastly increased readership to what it was and a number of societies/associations regularly advertise in it. Has a re-visit to possibly advertising again in NGW been considered by anyone? If not, then maybe it should be suggested, even if it is simply an aid to maintaining our visibility to what we might call the "as yet unconverted". We can certainly afford to splash a bit of cash in generally increasing our visibility and if ever there was a time to get on the bus and not let the world pass us by, then surely it is now.

Well there's 2 suggested areas for attention. I have not intended to create any rifts, start arguments or using your own words, to stir up discontent amongst members. If you think I am guilty of this, then I apologise, I merely intended to give my own opinion in response to the original posting - I think it was Chris's editorial and his posting about the perceived moribund state of the forum actually. I certainly did not intend to have diplomatic relations severed so will now back off and hope we can all continue the serene journey on our calm and increasingly geriatric ways towards Nirvana, and I've got a pugbash that needs attention.

Mick

[Chris Ford]

Chris, You can lead a horse to water....

... but a pencil must be lead.

[rod335]

My post wasn't aimed at you particularly Mick and you didn't strike a reactive nerve. But I do get pretty fed up with the usual suspects continually moaning and sniping without any positive input. And I have a pretty good idea who the puppet master is.

As for membership figures, as far as I can recall, the total stood in the high 1900s at our last Directors Meeting in the late summer. So it may well be over 2000 now.

Advertising for new members is a difficult one and, in reality, the only way to test it is to suck it and see. The trouble is there are, relatively, a lot of publications one could make a case for advertising in. And do we want/need to expand the membership, other than for reasons of vanity? Unless I have misunderstood matters we are probably at about optimum size economically at present. To keep the same scale of economics we would have to see an increase to some 5000 members, not likely at present. And I don't want to start a discussion on that. As an old Chairman of mine used to say 'Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity'.

[Chris Ford]

Rod,
Yes, a 'hard copy' would be out of date, anything would. But... my point is, getting something out would be very straightforward. And is initially digital - it's not hot type at 009 News Towers - so anything can be stretched/deleted/updated in a matter of hours.  If there was a 'root' paper handbook, say 32 pages, for years 1,2,3 an update added at the end of year three and this combined with the 'root' at year 4-5. An initial print run of say 500 could be put out for new members and to put on Society stands @

[Tom Haythornthwaite]

Thanks Chris, and everybody else on this thread so far.

I suggest the best format / forum / platform for a 'handbook' would be an interactive Wiki approach.  Mr Chris, I'm not sure your proposed 'timetable' would be quite dynamic enough.

There could still be perhaps quarterly extracts to a .pdf file that anybody could download or have posted to them.

I hereby offer to help.

Tom

[Chris Ford]

I'm not sure that things move THAT quickly. The handbook (I'm looking at the 16mm boys one) should be general tips and techniques outlined in a series of short chapters for the beginner/novice to 009, not a running report on new products, that is what the News should do. PDF updates to members would be good though. You could print out and insert until an updated root copy becomes available.
I'm very aware that a) a surprising number of people are not on the net as Stan indicated further up this thread b) people like paper and increasingly spend a lot of time on screen (me). Paper copies are tactile. c) If it's available to flog off the stand it balances the cost and someone is far more likely to join/get interested if they can take a small booklet with a membership form away with them then and there. The 'look us up online' is a quick way to wave people off into the distance. Give them something to hold and it stays.

I suggest we move this thread to somewhere else if this particular subject is to be discussed further.


Your offer is noted.

[Alan Feldon]

Chris
If I had/have a gripe with how you produce the news I would contact you personally NOT wash dirty linen in public. i have had problems with previous editors (pre digital camera days )where i took a lot of time and effort taking pictures of models I had made to find that when i sent these to the editor they were completely ignored .Now I accept that the editor wields the blue pencil  ,but I think there should have been some kind of feedback rather than just being ignored .I therefore stopped sending anything in to be published until Tom Dauben persuaded me to send him photos/details of my CGR Hunslet build.
I therefore changed to publishing details direct to a forum ,where unless i step over the lines , I cannot be censured . I must admit that I started posting on NGRM on line (as opposed to TedP who publishes on both there and here ) purely because of the time involved .
I tend to spend far more time on NGRM as it covers a much wider spectrum ,particularly on the actual railways/locos etc than just models, but still look on here from time to time .Mick's post was interesting particularly as I can no longer attend A G M s and perhaps there should be more feedback from the Board (where they can of course )
i am not of course aware of who the "troublemakers" are but there are ways of making them feel uncomfortable or just plain ignoring them .
Alan Feldon member no 009

[andy1878]

Hi
To pick up on a few points.
Firstly
Chris said:
1. The number who visit here appear to be less than 10% of the membership.

Really, that would mean about 180 - that would make a very active forum I think. Maybe 1% are active posters but I've got no data. (it looks like some data maybe available by reading the stats but life's too short)

2. Garry Whiting seems to be the only moderator

Agreed. There are others and if you read the stats the mem sec admin is still called Alan. So whilst Alan and Brian did / do a fine job using the forum to contact Brain might not be a good idea. I personally don't trust information that I can see is out of date.

3. No one is maintaining the site or developing it in any way.

Agreed that seems to be the case. There are one or two bits of the information on the site out of date, no where near as bad as some (lack of) efforts I've seen.
Generally the site looks old and fuddy (gulps as he types).
The forum software is old ish SMF 2.0.15 is in the wild, however if it ain't bust no need to fix it. but what does the newer version bring to the party? (Software update may be NonTrivial!)

4. Joining is dead easy - an email to Mem Sec gets you an initial password which can be changed in a couple of days once the account has been set up.

It must be. I'm here! Well it was years ago. (The web site mem sec info is up to date)

5. As far I as I, or anyone I spoke to can ascertain, we are the only model railway society with its own interactive forum.

Not so.
The Model Electronic Railway Group (MERG) have a very active forum. Their website is huge and upto date and if someone finds something wrong there's a mechanism to put it right.
And the Scalefour society have one.
OK so maybe they are a different branches of the hobby.

6. There needs to be a general 'chat area' similar to Bulrushes on NGRMO, and a realigning of the subject headings.

Not so sure. Subject headings seem ok to me. Bulrushes, so far I've avoided that bit.

7. The site is not fit for purpose in this form and needs a bit of a tweek to make it more attractive/accessible to a possible 1,800+ 009 Society members.

Without knowing what its supposed to be fit for I cant argue whether is fit for purpose or not. I can say it should be

A. OUR shop window (where interested parties can be made to feel welcome and enroll)

B. The place to administer my membership. (So if its wrong its likely my fault and somebody else's time is not wasted thus making somebody else's job easier).

C. An information resource for members. Surely this is where trade news should be. (swallows something sharp and jagged)

D. A trusted, up to date calendar of members events. (i.e. in the members area).

E. A gallery of achievement.

F. Logical and attractive in design.

OK I'm persuaded.

Also whilst I'm at it may I ask 'what use is the facebook page?'

I offer this in good faith as food for thought, no criticism of the the Society, Its Officers or members is intended.

I was at ExpoNG but I wasn't one of those 'polled' and a good job too, filled the day looking at the exhibition.



Andy

[Hobby]

I have to say that I have NEVER heard such an idiotic suggestion as a compulsory survey of the membership. Can we please exist in the real world?

Yes you are right, it is an idiotic suggestion with hindsight. But for a survey to be worthwhile you have to have a decent return, how would you suggest we do that, Rod? Perhaps a Prize Draw?! :)