This forum...

[Jim Flynn]

About a year and a half ago, there was a discussion regarding the possible 'demise' of this forum. Obviously, that hasn't occurred.

One thing regarding the forum does strike me as odd, the fact it seems things seemed to get posted here last, after in the NG section of RMWeb and on the NGRMOnline forum. I can understand that for non society members, but I would think society members would at least post here and on the other sites, if only to show the forum is relevant, and support it.

The example that made me think to post this were postings on RMweb and NGRMO that examples of the Bachmann Baldwins had arrived to a few folks for review. One person mentioned was Charlie Insley, the society's secretary. One would think he, at least, would have posted a note to the society's own forum. I'm not bashing Charlie about it, as I am not sure he posted anything on the other forums. Just read he had received one.

So, perhaps the forum is becoming irrelevant? I hope not, and if it stays around, it will be where I post any progress posts regarding my about to be started layout.

I guess I should also mention, that if in the future, folks get tired of the issues with other social media (hackings, 'fake news' postings, cyber bullying, et al) and we come full circle to using a Yahoo groups type method, I have started a 009 group on groups.io, more as a place holder, for now, than to start a active group. Just a FYI.

Jim F

[B.Meldon]

I guess it all comes down to numbers.

There are 380 members of this forum.

There are 1,784 members of the facebook 009 Railway Modellers Group.

There are 3,304 members of NGRMon-line.

The activity on the faceboook group is also the highest by a long way and it is far easier to upload photos as well.

I do not use RMweb so I do not know about that one.

Brian Meldon

[Hobby]

You'd have to drag me kicking and screaming to use Yahoo Groups, I'm afraid! Like Facebook it is hopeless if you want to find out information that has been posted before on a subject. Give me a Forum any day... I also find Forums tend to be more laid back and nicer places to be compared with the more "in your face" media such as YG, FB and Twit(er)...

I doubt this forum will go, it's useful for discussing "Society" only  things and, whilst quiet (compared with NGRM) it still serves a purpose...

[rod335]

I post on the Facebook Group. It is much more 'user-friendly' than this forum. Can't be bothered with NGRM online now, far too cliquey and I really did NOT like the moderators. I can post photos and videos on the Facebook group. I don't know how to do that here and can't be bothered to try to learn. The Society Directors have indeed discussed this forum. Consensus is that it is not used by many but those that do use it use it a lot. It WILL be revamped in the future as the entire Society web presence is being revamped. So the style and format will inevitably change.

[Jim Flynn]

Brian, I realize the number of folks on fb and NGRMOn-line is much higher, but I wonder how many of the 1784 (fb) and the 3304 on NGRMO are society members.

Not being one who wants more pictures to look at, verses more actual modelling content, nor cares to post pictures so people can admire what I've done, I am the opposite to Hobby. I like being able to search just the photo section, the files sections, of the conversation section on yahoo groups, and being able to get all the postings via email. So I would be kicking and screaming (and probably just give up any modelling hobby interest), if all I had to rely on was fb.

I also prefer having a focused group, as in a 009 one, verses a one size fits all forum or group, with all scales discussed. Clicking on a new thread topic, for example, one titled "My new L&B Lew", only to find it concerns a garden scale one, is a waste of time, for me.

For the record, as well, I have been on ONElist, which became EGroups, which became Yahoo Groups. I have never, in all that time, found it difficult to upload files or photos, nor any problems doing so, except when Yahoo was having issues. From owning a few groups over the last 20 odd years, I've found most problems folks have are self created.

Be that as it may, I'll use the Society forum, as long as it is around, perhaps posting on the other forums as well, though not there 1st, and here after.

Jim F

[Frank]

I for one would be very unlikely to use a Yahoo group.

I was a member of another modelling related Yahoo group but I left it.   I did not take out a Yahoo membership so could not use the past posts files, photos etc.   I eventually got so fed up of the vociferous few who went out of their way to annoy other posters who held different views from their own, that I signed out permanently.

In my experience, therefore, Yahoo groups are neither useful nor friendly and I will not join one again.

Just my opinion.

Frank

[danny]

I have been a member on here for several years but only recently joined RMweb. One thing I have noticed is that on the latter you can post pictures as attachments whereas here the maximum attachment size is more limited so that could be part of it. I quite like having a forum specific to 009 and which can be used for discussions about the Society which non-members would not want to read (and members might not want them to). It also provides a space for those unable to regularly get to area group meetings which is quite good.
Danny

[clayliner]

As Jim said, fears about this forum's demise have (so far) not materialised. Given that it is the Society's own forum it would be a shame if it did, in my opinion. But clearly many Society members do not feel that way, which of course they are fully entitled to. As for posting, it's perhaps understandable that many will give NGRM Online and other sites priority as they can expect a wider audience there. It's a virtuous / vicious circle, of course - the more traffic a forum generates the more visits it will receive, and vice versa. But I am puzzled that some of the Socety's officers seem not to feel the need to have a presence here (just a statement of fact). But maybe they do monitor our discussions here without wanting to get involved.

The proposed changes to the Sales operation, recently posted on the 'Sales' thread here, may possibly help to improve the traffic figures since if members need to visit the Society website and have a password to access the sales lists and order items they may possibly take the opportunity to browse the forum while they're signed in. Possibly...

David.

[danny]

One thing I have noticed is how erratic posting seems to be on the forum - so for instance there could be nothing for a few days then loads of posts within a few hours. Perhaps the officers/directors of the Society are keen to avoid being seen to unnecessarily interfere, as inevitably somebody would see fit to criticise them for this if they were present on the forum.
Danny

[rod335]

I am surprised that someone should complain that the Society's officers do not monitor or use this forum. Can I ask why they should? If any member has a question they wish to raise with the Committee, the correct way to do this is in writing to the Secretary, not as a gripe on these pages as quite often happens. As I understand it, the majority of the Committee members are not actually interested in the matters that are raised here. There is, of course, no reason why they ought to be so interested. I do not feel they should be obligated to have a presence here. This forum, after all, is only used by a very small percentage of the membership, considerably less in number than those registered to use it. I would guess, I do not know this, that the total number of members regularly posting here is considerably less than 100.

I would remind you that all Officers and Directors of the Society are unpaid, therefore work voluntarily and have other things in their lives as well as 009 modelling and their Society duties. The duties they perform are, for the most part, completely taken for granted by the membership, who, in some cases, seem very quick to complain if things are not done exactly as they would wish them to be. Having been on the receiving end of a very unpleasant personal attack recently I speak from personal experience on this matter!

[danny]

I am surprised that someone should complain that the Society's officers do not monitor or use this forum. Can I ask why they should? If any member has a question they wish to raise with the Committee, the correct way to do this is in writing to the Secretary, not as a gripe on these pages as quite often happens. As I understand it, the majority of the Committee members are not actually interested in the matters that are raised here. There is, of course, no reason why they ought to be so interested. I do not feel they should be obligated to have a presence here. This forum, after all, is only used by a very small percentage of the membership, considerably less in number than those registered to use it. I would guess, I do not know this, that the total number of members regularly posting here is considerably less than 100.

I would remind you that all Officers and Directors of the Society are unpaid, therefore work voluntarily and have other things in their lives as well as 009 modelling and their Society duties. The duties they perform are, for the most part, completely taken for granted by the membership, who, in some cases, seem very quick to complain if things are not done exactly as they would wish them to be. Having been on the receiving end of a very unpleasant personal attack recently I speak from personal experience on this matter!

Yes, I don't like the way some people seem to imply that membership of the forum should be compulsory for those who have given their time (as you quite rightly point out, unpaid) to serve the Society in a capacity which may have almost nothing to do with the forum.
Danny

[Tom Haythornthwaite]

I like our forum very much (although I wish posting pictures were easier).  The tone and atmosphere is (very nearly always) congenial and I am only tempted to post here.

[Jim Flynn]

Frank, sorry, but your reasoning about your not using Yahoo groups would be like someone deciding to get into 009 for the 1st time. Goes out and buys a 009 rtr loco, gets home, finds it runs terrible. Decided, based on that, that all 009 locoas are garbage, and goes on to model a different scale/gauge.

My EarlyRail group have been around since 1999, started by someone else. I inherited it 12 or 13 years ago. In all that time, I have only had to chastise 2 members, and one was only for posting a business sale advert, against group rules.  

And why would you not sign up with Yahoo? You have to register with most other forums and such, to use their photos and file features.

Like I said above, I think most problems folks have with Yahoo groups are self inflicted.

Rod, I agree with you, to a degree, regarding Committee members and monitoring the forum. But if part of it's purpose is not for the discussion of Society issues, for those who cannot get to any meetings where said discussions might occur, why even have a Society only forum? Telling someone who has a issue or question regarding the Society is fine, but if that person does write to a committee member, and never hears back, what other means does he or she have to get a answer, or raise a issue?

The fact that all Officers, Directors and committee members are all volunteers is, I think, well understood. But so are the same folks, in those positions, in other rail modelling Societies, Associations and Guilds. I have been a member of several over the past 6 or 7 years, as I explored which direction I would take with my UK rail modelling. The N Guage Society, the 2mm Association, Scalefour Society, O Gauge Guild, and I think maybe the EM Gauge Society, all have a member only forum or Yahoo group. and all have one sub forum which is for Society/Assoc./Guild business, and that sub section is and does have involved officers. So stating that they are volunteers should not be a reason for not participating, nor for saying Society business should not be discussed here.

Who knows, perhaps if there were more Society ideas, issues, etc.., being discussed here, it would draw in more members, as it might then feel like a Society benefit, instead of just another NG modelling forum.

Jim F

[rod335]

I think the concept of having a Society forum limited to members only is perfectly all right. The point I was trying to make about the Directors and Officers is that they have no obligation or duty to be on this forum and indeed many of them are not because they do not find it appealing or, dare I say it, interesting enough. The purpose of the forum, as I see it, is for members to seek help and advice from other members. It should not, to my mind, be abused by people with their own hobby horses (sorry Blair, that does NOT mean you!) to go tilting at windmills or airing grievances in public. And it should equally not involve attacks on other members, no matter how veiled.

[Hobby]

 ;D

The way this Forum is set up is such that we can have discussions about Society Matters without any non-members joining in, which I think is as it should be. Jim makes a good point that many members can't get to the AGM and whilst sending a letter to the News is one way of raising something it's not a discussion and replies (and thus any discussion) is, by default, very long winded... That is one very good reason for the Forum and I do believe that the "Committee" (or whatever they are called these days) do look in even if they don't become involved which is also as it should be... We have a discussion and then, if people feel strongly enough about it, they write in... In effect it's the same as a local group but on a worldwide basis!


Jim, the way i look at the various online discussion "methods" is as follows:

Facebook (and i suppose twitter) is like a Pub, you go in, have a chat and go out again, information is there but hard to get at and not very convenient...

Forums such as this, NGRM or RMW are like Libraries in a Pub where you can chat and find out information at the same time, even if it's from a while ago! The information is there, easy to get at and you can have a chat at the same time...

Yahoo Groups is sort of inbetween the two, it's easy enough to chat but not as easy to get information from unless the discussion is ongoing...

I'm not a fan of FB (can't stand Twitter), I can live with Yahoo Groups (I have to as the Austrian Railways Group don't have a forum) but give me a proper forum any day for the best of both worlds...

I've not an issue re photos, it's easy enough to put your photos in a hosting site and use that, if you are in several Forums or Groups it's easier that way as you have the photo in just one place... Personally I use Imgur, though many use Flickr...

Just my views...