The Society Heritage Collection

[JulienW]

My feeling (having looked after the collection during my stint as Seceratry - I'm the one mentioned in Mick's post) is that one problem with the heritage collection is a lack of documentation.  Whilst there are some in the Society who know the history behind individual items and why they are in the collection there are IIRC no notes of any of this with the items in the collection. I found this myself when I started cataloging it all, especially trying to work out what really was 'Heritage' and what was just 'nice stuff found on the sales table' and asked a lot of question. Equally I'm probably guilty of not making notes at the time (beyond who built it and possibly when) so I suspect the same questions will be asked to the same people (or those still with us) over again, and again(!) at some point.

Equally, unless things have changed since my time wearing the Secretarial Hat (ask Mick & Charlie what it looks like!), there is no policy about what the Society should be collecting for the future, let alone what the Society does with the collection it currently owns other than making sure that it does not deteriorate.

The suggestion that there is a lack of interest in the collection at Committee level is a little disingenuous I feel. With the Committee meeting only a few times in any year, and with the limited amount of time they can commit to their voluntary work done to keep the Society running from day to day, let alone all the 'special projects' we would like them to do for us, sorting out the Heritage collection comes well down the list compared to (say) updating the website, or getting the News assembled, printed and distributed on time, sorting out the next batch of Society kits, etc. etc... (essentially whatever the last thing was that the membership groused about).

As others have said ideally a series of short articles for the News would be the best way to promote the collection and allow 100% of the membership to see it (albeit a few items at a time), but the bottom line is that this needs someone with the time and skills available to take the photos and someone to write the words needed to go with the photos - note that they do not have to be the same person or persons!

Any volunteers therefore should make their offers to Charlie Insley in the first instance - and his contact details are in 009 News each month.

[B.Meldon]

It is very true that there are a few people in the 009 Society that would be ideal to ask about there models, however I think that by far the best way to find out the history and details of an item in the collection would be to post a photo on this forum, NGRM on-line and the 009 Railway Modellers face book page!

I have found out so much in this way when members of these groups post photos of individual models they have with a simple 'what is this?' question.

Brian Meldon

[Sioned Arrowsmith]

I'm below 'a certain age' (and if I'm not, I'm young in the area of NG modelling) and am always fascinated when there are articles in the News mentioning how early NG modellers went about scratch building. More of this illustrated with examples from the heritage collection would be very welcome. It sounds like a collection of considerable historic value, not just a memento for those who remember, yet I don't recall seeing any mention of it in Society literature before now.

[Alan Feldon]

Being a founder member I do feel that the heritage collection (or photos thereof ) should be more easily available ,as in effect , it reflects the history of the society showing how 009 modelling has evolved throughout the past 40 plus years.
I appreciate totally what Rod and Julien say but it does seem a pity that it does not appear to see the light of day.
Certainly it would seem to me that firstly a photographic record be made of all the items.
Secondly these be identified where possible
and thirdly any unknown items have photos published (as suggested ) to see if other persons recognise these
A decision could then be made as to what items should be in the collection and if the remainder should be disposed of.
The remainder could then have photos published regularly in the news with a description of them.
Lets face it every editor asks for articles so these could not only be space fillers but of interest (hopefully ) to the membership.

[Malcolm]

For what it is worth it has always been a mystery to me what is held in the heritage collection.  I could list about 20 items in the collection but the remainder.......!  Like Alan I do feel that the heritage collection should be more easily available and I also totally appreciate what Rod and Julien say but it does seem a pity that it does not appear to see the light of day very often.  [And, to pre-empt the retaliation ;) yes, I am conscious of the fact the E&LMRC P D Hancock layout and stock seldom surfaces in public - it is located even further off the beaten track than the Heritage Collection.]

Moving quickly on with my head below the parapet, it would appear from what Julian and Mick tell us there is an inventory and there are photographs of all items in the collection. The inventory and the photos were passed to the Committee in April 2009 along with recommendations regarding disposal of some of the items.  It is not known whether or not the Committee actioned this matter but if they did then something like 50% of what was in the inventory as at 2009 will have been disposed of.   So the first task, as Mick suggested, is to raise the matter directly with the Directors in the accepted procedural manner, by raising their concerns in writing via the Secretary.   I agree with Mick that discussions here on the forum, based on assumptions, will not provide any solutions so I have this evening e-mail the Hon Sec and will report back in due course.

Glad to hear that there should be some articles in the News in the new year however at one item a month it will take many, many years to work through the Collection.  Could I suggest that once it is ascertained what remains in the collection the inventory is published in the 009 News, just a list, no photographs required at this stage.  Should there be any unknown items then photographs could be published (as suggested ) to see if other persons recognise these and then a decision made as to whether they remain in the collection or should be disposed of.  At least then we will all at least know what is in the collection.  Thereafter, as suggested, a regular 'Heritage Collection' item in the 009 News

[JulienW]

Just to clarify if I may Malcolm:

1. My comments about Society / Committee policies with respect to the heritage collection relate to the situation back in 2008/9 when the collection was relocated from my house.

2. It therefore follows that I have no knowledge of what the current situation is in this respect, and it may have changed in the intervening years.

[rod335]

I am delighted that this matter has aroused such attention of late. Rest assured, items WILL be appearing in the News fairly soon. As regards details of 'unknown' items, some of you appear to be misinformed. There are NO items of note in the collection that we do not have a reasonable amount of information about. As regards what is in the collection and what has been disposed of, the collection can mainly be regarded as comprising all the Aire Valley locos and what rolling sock (vey little) which survived the fire in Tasmania together with all but one of the Stronachlacher (yes, that is the correct spelling) locos and some rolling stock together with two Craig and Mertonford locos (plus I own another two personally). much of what else was in the collection has been disposed of as it was not felt to be of historic significance.

As regards acquisition policy, this is something I have been trying to get defined for a long time now. The best I have managed so far is that we should wish to acquire models of historical significance, a rather loose definition I know but this is not meant to include models just because they are well made. Personally, I would like to see Maurice Deane's models and the Milwehr and Llenli stock in the collection. I believe I know the whereabouts of the former, the latter are in the ether somewhere.

It should be born in mind that the society never set out to possess a collection of this sort. We have, almost by accident, ended up with it and for many years no one has really either known what to do with it or indeed given it much thought. I cannot help but think that although a FEW people now have expressed interest in the matter, the vast majority of the membership actually have little or no interest in the subject so we may just be proposing pandering to a minority here.

[B.Meldon]

As far as I am aware Pete Wilson has loaned some of his 8mm gauge locos to the society collection.
I guess these are held separately to the bulk of the collection?

Brian Meldon

[cp.409067]

..... Personally, I would like to see Maurice Deane's models and the Milwehr and Llenli stock in the collection. .....

*

I think one needs to be of a certain age to appreciate this idea. I am and do. An excellent suggestion.


CP

[Malcolm]

Julian
No clarification required.  I was in no doubt you were commenting on the 2008/9 position.  Sorry if I confused you!

With regard to any Society policy, my information, now confirmed by Rod in his latest post, is that there is no clear policy however I have contacted Charles and we await the official position.

It would appear from Rod's post that the collection has been shrunk but it will be interesting to hear from Charles as to what action the Committee did take.

Malcolm

[rod335]

As soon as I had pressed 'post' on my last post I remembered Pete Wilson's locos. Just knew some smart***e would have to correct me. But the locos, like others, are not on loan to the Society. Some years ago all those who had loaned stock for the collection were written to and advised that the Society could no longer accept responsibility for other people's items and unless they requested return of their property ownership would pass to the Society.

[danny]

Regarding the idea of 'what the society should be collecting for the future' and comments to that effect, does this imply that the collection in future would expand and also feature more recent historically important 009 items?

[rod335]

At present, at least, the Directors are proposing restricting the collection to items from the pre Eggar/Minitrains/Lilliput era. This pretty much means hand-built.

[MickT]

much of what else was in the collection has been disposed of as it was not felt to be of historic significance.


It should be born in mind that the society never set out to possess a collection of this sort. We have, almost by accident, ended up with it and for many years no one has really either known what to do with it or indeed given it much thought. I cannot help but think that although a FEW people now have expressed interest in the matter, the vast majority of the membership actually have little or no interest in the subject so we may just be proposing pandering to a minority here.

A bit concerned about the first extract above Rod as you haven't mentioned the Wunce Onli collection built by Mike Sharman and donated by Paul Towers or the HB Whall early 1950's 9.5mm gauge locos. Oversight in your statement regarding the 3 people's scratchbuilt models that have been retained or have these really been disposed of?

Have to comment on a couple of aspects you mentioned in the second para that I have included as a "quote" above:

The Society did set out to possess the collection - David Burleigh started it when he was publicity officer under the chairmanship of Peter Kirkby and followed it on when David himself became chairman. He liaised with owners and coordinated the nucleus of the true heritage items and also sourced a small nucleus of what could well have grown into an interesting historical collection representing early 009/HOe development, for example one of the first Egger diesel locos was acquired, but was then "lost amongst the chaff" when 4 or 5 other Egger diesels were added, but no Fiery Elias or indeed any other Egger locos!

Problem was that when the policy of putting "Nice" items that turned up on sales for display along with some of the Heritage collection items in the Society display case, various following publicity officers, who used to have the "guardianship" of the heritage collection, did not separate these "nice" items and there was no direction or policy regarding rotating these models back into sales stock and replacing them with new "nice" ones as they came up. Result, after a few years of absence of supervision and direction - chaos, and furthermore there were items belonging to the Society scattered all over the country with no real audit trail. It is to Julien's credit that when one of our publicity officers sadly passed away, Julien, who was Society Secretary, inherited the "guardianship" of what was present at the time, and did a lot of work to track down the stray items and get the collection as it stood at the time, at least safeguarded and accounted for and he built the first proper inventory.

By the time I got involved, and temporarily had the collection to take the "catalogue photos" and maybe because of my own interest in some items such as the Aire Valley and Stronachlacher stock, I quickly realised that there were some items that belonged to these sets that were in danger of being disposed of as "no historical interest" simply because they hadn't been identified as being connected. Nobody's fault after the lack of accountability that had prevailed for some years, as not everybody could have been expected to immediately see a particular model and identify it by markings on it, or memories of how it had been described in a mag article 30 or 40 years previously. Anyway that is how it was. I refer as a particular example from memory to what looked like a Minitrains Plymouth diesel that was actually quite a comprehensive conversion and had been built by David Mander for Sronachlacher. Some of the Aire Valley goods vehicles, for example the hoppers, were also in danger of ending up in a skip for the same reason, nobody recognised them for what they were.

So, I took it upon myself to do a new inventory, to flag up known models from the true heritage stock collections and to try to simplify it. Along with Brian G, who was holding the collection until a new Heritage Officer could be appointed, we also created a suggested disposal list which was presented to the committee for decision. By this time I had replaced Julien as Secretary and although my own tenure in the seat was very brief, a policy on the remit for the still to be appointed Heritage Officer, such as what his bounds were to be on not only caring for and making the collection visible to the membership, but also how the collection should be developed, plus what budget would he be working with etc was indeed raised as an agenda item, in the January 2009 committee meeting to be precise, and the actions to be taken to create and then implement a clear policy that was agreed Unanimously by the committee at that time was recorded in the minutes. After i had left the committee I tried to find out what progress was being made on this for 2 years, and clearly became something of a pain about it as I was accused of several things inferring undermining morale, stirring up trouble and etc before I grew weary of it all and developed a need to point my energies and "Angry of Tunbridge Wells (Retd)" head in the direction of those who are supposed to be in charge of the dangerously inept and useless NHS mental health service, or lack of, in the area where I live.

Finally, I am in full agreement with you, it is good that some interest is at last being shown, however I don't fully agree that it is a subject that is not of interest to the majority of the membership, I believe that apparent situation is simply because the majority of the membership either know nothing at all about it, or some may treat the stories about the collection as just one of the "fables" akin to the elusive fate of Lynton & Barnstaple loco Lew that some believe is still lurking somewhere in the Brazilian rain forest, in pristine condition, awaiting the day when it will be re-discovered and will steam triumphantly again into Blackmoor Vale. I agree fully with those who think a regular feature in the News to cover the collection would be a good thing and also fully empathise with your own desire for the Society in its infinite magnificence to come up with a reasonable and positive policy on managing the collection!

At the risk of once again igniting defensive outrage amongst certain luminaries amongst us, I will now close my rant nodes for the night and summon the nurse as it is past bedtime.

Mick

[rod335]

Sorry Mick, my post was not intended to be a comprehensive list of all items, I merely attempted to mention the ones I thought most people would be able to identify. But, as I have stated before, in my experience, when I have taken items for display there has been very little interest in them. Sad but true.