Narrow Gauge to Standard Gauge Transfer Platform

[berryr99]

Good Afternoon,

I have not posted for a while because I decided that the running qualities of my layout where not what I wanted.

Now that I am retired I am rebuilding the layout to a far higher standard ( this will incorporate an element of standard gauge to indulge my interest in "green diesels" !)

I have been looking, currently in vain, for some photographs or plans on what a goods transfer platform would look like.

The transfer will be from narrow to standard and with the room I have available on the layout I think I will have to build a structure, as opposed to making the transfer platform a scenic feature (running the NG along a bank for instance)

I have searched the forum but not seen any references to this and was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction.

Thank you

Bob Berry

[Graeme Dunbar]

What goods are being transferred and in what quantities? A lot of stuff in "olden days" was moved by sheer grunt -  men, horses, barrows, carts and hand operated crane, if it didn't walk by itself as in the case of livestock.

Goodness knows how many tons of coal a coal-man carried on his back in a day for example.

There's an interesting bit about goods yards in general:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/8-yards/y-gooda.htm

Edit: perhaps a fairly minor change in rail height to bring the NG and standard gauge wagon floors to the same level may be all that is needed?

[petersmith1942]

Bob
Iknow its not ng but for inspiration what about the broad gauge/standard gauge transfer shed preserved at Didcot. Sorry cant give you a photo link but a similar building ng/sg would look great especially as you will be modelling freelance anyway. The contrasting size arches are wonderful
Peter Smith

[Graeme Dunbar]

Photos like this?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/6613096173/


Ref: http://www.yeovilrailway.freeservers.com/ts.html

As I said - a lot of grunt!

Ref: http://www.engrailhistory.info/r010.html

(Looking more closely at the engraving, I wonder if it is actually a cartoon from Punch or the like? I'm sure that is a female by the box or hamper with all the pots and plates spilling out. I may even hazard a guess that it was part of the campaign to close broad gauge.)

[petersmith1942]

Graeme
yes, excellent, thanks
Peter Smith

[berryr99]

Thank you, that's helpful and I hadn't thought of looking at standard gauge examples - I will follow up

I should have amplified a little on the purpose of the transfer siding - my new layout is based in Cornwall and in this scenario there is a narrow gauge branch that brings China Clay from a small working up for transhipment to the standard gauge.

There won't be any mechanisation and the raw material will be moved by shovel/wheelbarrow.

The NG section will be above the standard gauge thus the material will be taken out of the NG wagons, across the floor and into the standard gauge wagons.

Bob Berry

[Graeme Dunbar]

I found this. It might be of interest:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/12995-china-clay-loading/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/china_clay_branchlines/

[JulienW]

Thank you, that's helpful and I hadn't thought of looking at standard gauge examples - I will follow up

I should have amplified a little on the purpose of the transfer siding - my new layout is based in Cornwall and in this scenario there is a narrow gauge branch that brings China Clay from a small working up for transhipment to the standard gauge.

There won't be any mechanisation and the raw material will be moved by shovel/wheelbarrow.

The NG section will be above the standard gauge thus the material will be taken out of the NG wagons, across the floor and into the standard gauge wagons.

Bob Berry

A couple of suggestions that relate specifically to the china clay industry:

First off there were transhipment sheds at Furzebroke in the 2' 8" system.  From memory these consited of a corrugated iron shed with the narrow gauge at a higher level than the standard gauge, essentially ON the platform.  Side-tipping wagons would have been used, and would have been tipped into waiting Std gauge opens.  Non-tipping NG wagond may also have been used, but it would have been a simple matter to drop the side door (or a drop side) and shovel the clay out and down into the standard gauge wagons.

The other thought would be a set up like the one at Pentewan in Cornwall, which took the clay from around St. Austell to the harbour at Pentewan.  The wagons (drop door / drop side from memory) were propelled up tracks raised on a fairly open wooden structure and then discharged (drop the door/side and shovel) down a wooden shoot into the ship's hold. A similar set up could be used for discharging into std gauge wagons.

I can't recall what the North Devon systems used but I suspect that it was much the same as used at Furzebroke.

Other examples of 'minerals' being transfred from one gauge to another come to mind  - coal on the Cavan & Leitrim, Stone and Lead Ore on the Snailbeach, there are others,  - where what essentially happened was direct discharge from narrow gauge wagons on a high level strait into standard gauge ones at a lower level using muscle power and shovels.  These did not have platforms that the stuff (whatever it was) needed to be barrowed across, probably because raw minerals are not fragile (unlike slate for example) but also because it means that the railway's operators do not need to buy barrows and more 'stuff' can be shifted per man hour (he just digs without needing to fill then empty a wheelbarrow).  Often such transfer was done in the open air, but as clay (in particular) needs to be kept dry transfer sheds were used. I'm sure tha labourers appriciated being out of the worst of the weather, but that was not the main reason for building a shed!

Don't forget that the standard gauge line can drop into a cutting to get more height differential, and if you are tipping or transfering a lot of material then the floor of the NG wagon needs to be at least at the same height as the top of the side of the Std gauge wagon. The most extreem example, and I may be mis-remembering this, but at Snailbeach they used bottom-discharge hoppers (Dundas do a kit!) and the transfer siding was the narrow gauge built up and out over a standard gauge line in a shallow cutting and gravity did all the work.

You could get away with less height difference, as at a minimum the floors of both gauges of wagon need to be the same so you can just shovel strait across from one to the other, and this may be best if transfer goes both ways, say clay out and coal in.  Some places had a single NG siding with a 'same floor level' standard gauge siding on one side for incoming items and a lower standard siding for the outgoing stuff.

The Broad Gauge /Standard Gauge transfer sheds shown in GraemeD's post would have been for general goods and included things in sacks, barrels and crates / boxes being transported in vans that would need to be carefully unloaded from one gauge van the platform then barrowed across and loaded into a van on the other gauge.  There were a number in Ireland on the 3' gauge systems and there might have been others in the 'mainland UK' - Welshpool perhaps had one?, but in the NG cases the NG rails would have been set so that the floors of the vans on the 2 gauges were level with the platform (and each other), and the platform only needed to be wide enough to open the doors on the vans on both sides (about 6'?).

Hope the above helps, as such transfer operations are something that is not modelled that often.

[berryr99]

Graeme/Julien,

Thank you.

Both extremely helpful replies and I will follow up.

I have no memory of seeing an 009 layout with transfer sidings modelled on it but stand to be corrected.

One of the issues I have is that of very little room and also the baseboards are flat, not open. (I made open baseboards on my last layout and am in no hurry to repeat the experience). Thus the potential gradient could be very steep (probably more prototypical and do-able for the NG section to be steep).

I think I will model a structure of sorts as I want to re-use it on another small NG layout I will be building shortly.

I will look at the Parkside Dundas kit.


Thanks again

Bob Berry

[Graeme Dunbar]

Serendipity! In this month's (well October) Continental Modeller there's a transfer platform on the South African 009 layout Zebedelia, though moving fruit in boxes is probably most easily accomplished by hand. Perhaps needing a sack barrow or flat trolley at most.

[Cambridge Paul]

Have a look at the "High Peak Junction" on the Cromford Canal and the Cromford and High Peak Railway. I know that this is Standard Gauge to canal, but the site demonstrates the principals very well, particularly as it is so early.
Paul

[berryr99]

Thanks all for the help and comments - I am following up

Regards

Bob

[clayliner]

Just come across this thread, and this photo of the transhipment shed at Furzebrook clay works may be relevant:


FBK transfer shed 1 by clayliner, on Flickr

It is a recent picture (taken on Christmas Day 2011 - a good time to wander around unnoticed!) so I'm not sure whether it was always quite like this, or, if not, what it used to look like. The standard gauge siding was on the right-hand side, and the narrow gauge higher up on the left. It's perhaps surprising how much higher this is / was; I presume that in the later years of clay being shipped out via the Swanage branch (i.e. after the n/g tramway ceased to operate) clay would have arrived by lorry, and the set-up may have been remodelled to suit these better.

David.

[berryr99]

Thanks David - interesting and fits in with my Western Region theme

Bob

[tedp]

There is a lot of detail in your photo for anyone who wants to model a similar scene. The corrugated sheet on the gable is obviously new, but if you replace that with the same rusty stuff as the remaining sheet over the standard gauge siding, it would be a very atmospheric building. Unless you want to model a recent period. The young trees growing in the trackbed indicate it has been out of use for some time. The high level retaining wall inside the building looks like being built of sleepers. And look at that clay spill on top of it!