Parallel Track

[Graeme Dunbar]

I'm with you there Blair. We shouldn't put newcomers off by imposing rigid rules, but on the other hand I've seen layouts where certain bits of track are unusable. It may not occur to a beginner that just because one and the same (HOe) RTR manufacturer sells tiny skips and monstrous coaches that a layout designed to run the former will operate successfully with the latter.

It has to be horses for courses. Using "mainline" track for a small quarry is as silly as running large stock on minimum radius curves. It would be a pity if all layouts were the same.

I was looking for dimensions of "Jubilee" track and found this:
http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=642&forum_id=11

15 foot radius turnout anybody? No doubt it was for the very smallest of stock. Peco are to be congratulated on their new turnouts, but I want to go the other way (smaller radius, not poorer running!  :D )

[petersmith1942]

All
I rarely read a Brian Meldon comment that isnt on the button and agree completely with his tracklaying fundamentals whatever the layout purpose or operation. Byand large you can be sure if thes "rules" are followed that any motive power or stock that exhibits running problems the cause will be in the loco or stock and not the track. Unless you are pretty experienced it is so easy to think they dont really matter until the inevitable disappointment comes.
I imagine because we use proprietary chassis and track that track gauges arent used much by 009ers
I am tempted to produce a gauge for my own use to check the gauge of new Peco points because I find even with the new large radius points the gauge through the curve is not guaranteed to be consistent. Does anyone else find this to be the case?
Peter

[tedp]

(1)...Every point will also need frog polarity switching as the blade to rail contact is unreliable....

(2)....When you make your layout the track work has to be absolutely spot on without any kinks, dips, bumps or steps. This is far more critical in 009 than in 00 and needs to be perfect....

(3)....The track and the loco wheels have to be spotlessly clean I clean the track every day and the wheels of the locos every time I use them. At exhibitions some clean the loco wheels every time a loco comes into the fiddle yard!...

I'm sorry, Brian, but I'm not sure things are as critical as you say - I'm afraid you make 009 layout building seem quite scary but I think it's far from that. I will explain as follows:

(1) I have a fair number of Peco 009 points on the C&DR that have worked quite well without backup switches, for about 20 years. I would only fit backup switches until after you experience problems.

(2) My C&DR is an old layout with lots of imperfections in the track. I would say I'm a fair tracklayer, but not a perfect one. Laying fair track isn't black magic. After it's laid for the first time, taking some precautions like pre-bending the rail and trimming the ends with a file, check it by running trains over it for a period of time. On finding a problem, rectify it.

(3) Cleaning wheels and track every day? No way - I would have given up on 009 long ago if that were needed. I never do so unless operation starts to suffer, and only in trouble spots. You'd only damage scenery. The secret is having heavy locomotives and running trains regularly. I also use a Relco high frequency track cleaning device and a good controller.

The result is a reliable layout, good slow running, few derailments and generally good operation. I'm a layout operator on a regular basis and I would hate bad running, so I don't have it. But I don't have kink-free track. I have reverse curves, bumps and kinks. It's not perfect, but my railway works.

I would suggest there are two ways of achieving this. One is having perfect flat track as Brian says - no reverse curves and all irregularities removed before a train turns a wheel. The other is a trial and error approach which improves as a modeller becomes more experienced.

So to any modeller new to 009: jump in at the deep end and see what happens. Put down some track and learn from your mistakes. As I said: it's no black magic.   ;)

[Tigger]

I would tend to echo Ted's comments.  I've had to replace a couple of points due to mechanical failure but other than that they give very little trouble.  I've had to install only three switches due to electrical failure (I have 27 points on the L&TR).

The L&RE get run 2 or 3 times a week these days on average and I tend to find that the wheels and track need cleaning ever 6 to 8 weeks, with the occasional bit of 'spot attention' in between.  I use four ECM Compspeed F controllers which are quite old these days but are superb designs.

At the time I laid the L&TR track I was most certainly not proficient at the job and didn't know the nuances but I have relatively few problems.  I say the same.  Get started, be careful and you'll be ok!

[JulienW]

I think that Ted and Brian both make good points (no pun intended) but to some extent it is dependend on your layout.

Exhibition layouts will need to run well so it is probably better to err on the side of caution with reguard to switching the frog polarity - that said, Latham's was out on show yesterday and I had some 'issues' with one or two points and I wonder if after 20+ years the switches need replacing (or cleaning at least) - but at least it is not dificult to fit such switches if you do experience problems as Ted suggests on a home-based layout.

"perfect tracklaying" is something where you need to define 'perfect'.  What really causes problems is sudden changes in direction.  These are particularly common at base bord joints (not an issue if you layout is a perminant at home job) where care is needed but another problem that arises over time is curves straightening themselves out and insulating rail joiners that are slightly flexible and allow the careful curve running in to a point to look like the edge of a 50p peice (i.e. an angle).  I think that the guide here is that if your finger can feel it and the eye see it then you can be fairly sure that 009 wheesets will too.

Certainly having large numbers of the general public looking at layouts when it's a damp day outside is not helpful when it comes to clean track, and don't get me started on having a live steam display (locos fires with old socks) 6 feet away!  I cleaned the track before the layout was packed up, again when set up at the show and it probably needed doing again by about 2 p.m. but we managed, probably because the locos had their wheels cleaned 4 or 5 times throughout the day.  I'll add that I do not use a Relco unit and have not noticed any decrease in performance without it.  At home however (layout is in spare room with centeral heating which I'm the only one to go in on a regular basis) and with less than intense running it never gets cleaned and seems to be OK.  Let's face it, cleaning wheels and track will not harm the running (don't forget that rolling stock wheels can get surprisingly filthy too so it's worth checking them from time to time) but cleaning track has the problem that scenery can get damaged - I clean the track on Latham's with the buildings off so I can't catch them which I why I tend not to do it during an exhibition - so its probably more a case of perhaps doing it at the start of a running session and/or if running starts to suffer.

[tedp]

You make some valid points there, Julien - there is a difference between a home layout and an exhibition layout. At an exhibition the dust and damp will get at the track and wheels. I have exhibited in places where I had to clean the track three times a day, but during the recent Tonbridge show for instance I didn't need to do it except before the show opened. And I do clean my rolling stock wheels about once a year when I see too much compressed dirt has built up.

I would add that I use back-up switches at Rae Bridge which goes out on the exhibition circuit.

Fair tracklaying as I mentioned above includes the checks you mention: straight rail joints, feel the joints with your index finger to detect any irregularity, etc. Pre-bending a piece of track and pinning it down soundly where a rail joint is on a curve is a good way to avoid the 50p effect.

However the point I tried to make in my reply to Brian is that there is nothing difficult about laying reliable track. Just try it and see how it turns out.

[Graeme Dunbar]

My thoughts on track laying have changed. I used to be an advocate of the "Iain Rice" floating trackbed idea, but after a brief detour into T-gauge I now think (as do some others here) that gluing track down to a rigid base is the way to do it with smaller gauges. Once the track is ballasted with PVA and chippings it sets like concrete and any sound-deadening properties seem to vanish.

I will probably go overboard with electrical droppers to the track and point polarity switching from now on, but having said that I have a 1200 mm x 600 mm N-gauge DC block control demonstration layout (MERG) that spends most of the year propped up in the corner of the spare bedroom and it brought out occasionally for an exhibition. One of the Peco Settrack points needed a bit of cleaning between the blades to maintain continuity and I may have had to squeeze a rail joiner but that's all in about 5 years of exhibiting. The big proviso though is that the track is not ballasted other than being stuck to a thin black/grey foam (cork underlay equivalent). However, I am fairly sure I'd see a lot more problems if I ballasted and weathered the track.

If there was one procedure that I think will have the most effect it is checking that trains run on your track runs to your satisfaction before ballasting. Being a very slow modeller, I have no problem leaving the layout to "season" before proceeding to the next stage. All my problems have occurred when I've rushed ahead and not checked and tested thoroughly.

[tedp]

...gluing track down to a rigid base is the way to do it with smaller gauges. Once the track is ballasted with PVA and chippings it sets like concrete and any sound-deadening properties seem to vanish.

...If there was one procedure that I think will have the most effect it is checking that trains run on your track runs to your satisfaction before ballasting. Being a very slow modeller, I have no problem leaving the layout to "season" before proceeding to the next stage. All my problems have occurred when I've rushed ahead and not checked and tested thoroughly.

My way of thinking! And you'll be able to change anything in the track layout that won't work.

[Ozymandius]

You mentioned bending the track before you lay it Ted.  I'm used to G scale track, where if you don't bend the rail, the only curve you get is straight(ish). 

What would you recommend to pre-bend rail in OO9 please, so it stays put?

Thanks

Tony Deighan

[tedp]

I always bend the track by hand, taking care not to disturb the rail 'spikes' on the sleeper mat. For very sharp curves I prefer N gauge setrack. Where necessary to get a smooth alignment, I carefully tweak the rails individually. I first cut through the sleeper mat and slide a section off, then bend the rail between my fingers and slide it back on.

Larger radius curves can be bent against the 'spring' of the track, so the track is pinned down with the spring tension still on. This means you get automatic transition curves at the ends. If you need a rail joint on a curve, staggering the rail joints, as well as soldering the rail joiners to the rail, helps to prevent an angle in the track on the curve.

I spike the sleepers down and add more spikes around a weak area where an angle might result, or if I see one develop during tracklaying. After ballasting the spikes are removed. Mind you pre-drill the sleepers before inserting a track pin.

If I need an insulating gap on a curve I don't use a plastic joiner but I cut it with a Dremel or a Roco saw after the track is down. Sometimes I brace the rails either side of the gap by inserting brass pins into the baseboard and soldering the rail to it before making the cut.

Most of this is using common sense really. Actually I like laying track, there's not a lot of trouble to it. Hope this answers your question.

[B.Meldon]

I always bend the track by hand, taking care not to disturb the rail 'spikes' on the sleeper mat. For very sharp curves I prefer N gauge setrack. Where necessary to get a smooth alignment, I carefully tweak the rails individually. I first cut through the sleeper mat and slide a section off, then bend the rail between my fingers and slide it back on.

Larger radius curves can be bent against the 'spring' of the track, so the track is pinned down with the spring tension still on. This means you get automatic transition curves at the ends. If you need a rail joint on a curve, staggering the rail joints, as well as soldering the rail joiners to the rail, helps to prevent an angle in the track on the curve.

I spike the sleepers down and add more spikes around a weak area where an angle might result, or if I see one develop during tracklaying. After ballasting the spikes are removed. Mind you pre-drill the sleepers before inserting a track pin.

If I need an insulating gap on a curve I don't use a plastic joiner but I cut it with a Dremel or a Roco saw after the track is down. Sometimes I brace the rails either side of the gap by inserting brass pins into the baseboard and soldering the rail to it before making the cut.

Most of this is using common sense really. Actually I like laying track, there's not a lot of trouble to it. Hope this answers your question.

As Ted said all common sense and exactly what I do as well.

Brian Meldon

[B.Meldon]

Looks like I have opened a can of worms here!

But please remember I only mentioned these things in my previous post as

[pilotfriend]

"Is it not better to point out the ideal way to do things before they get to this stage or become disillusioned with 009 and walk away?"

Of course it is. There are rules to follow in any pastime. Why should 009 be different.

[Hobby]

Perhaps the choice of words when talking about reverse curves can give the impression of "rules". A quick search on here and NGRM will show what I mean!  ;)

I've been as guilty of anyone of "laying the law down" from time to time, the trouble is when someone has a bee in their bonnet about something their posts tend to reflect their strong feelings, even if they don't intend it to come over that way.

[pilotfriend]

That's true. I have a bee about 'sky corners' and a wasp about inside frames on outside frame prototypes.