A Philosophical Matter

[Tigger]

The chassis of the oldest regularly working loco in my fleet seems finally to be failing after an innings of 33 years.  By a bit of fortunate forward planning earlier this year I bought a spare from Andrew Hastie earlier this year but it seems as though I'm going to be installing it earlier than I expected!  The point is this - Should the loco retain its status of oldest loco or should that accolade now pass to the next in line?

[Cambridge Paul]

This is a very contentious topic in the 12 inches to one foot world or railway preservation. The double Fairlies on the Festiniog are one end of this equation

[DeadHorse]

Simples - add a 'Rebuilt by' makers plate from Narrow Planet. :-)

[Tigger]

Valuable thoughts, many thanks.  I start wondering what is the real essence of a model loco?  Is it the carcass, the empty shell of a body or is it the chassis?  True, the body gives the model its character but it is the chassis which gives movement so in that respect it is the chassis which has the life.  I believe the general understanding in the prototype is that the locomotive frames constitute the locomotive and only when these are destroyed is the loco considered ended.  That said, at least one loco (wasn't it the quarry Hunslet Alice?) has had its frames cut through and been restored!  I guess with the Fairlies it could be argued that the frame is the part which holds the boiler and not part of the power trucks - similar to a diesel loco.  I have to accept that with my own 7

[pilotfriend]

As most 009 modellers concentrate on the locomotive body and then suffer from self induced hysterical blindness concerning the chassis underneath (inside frames instead of outside ones), I would have thought a chassis change is irrelevent and your loco would still be the oldest on the line!  ;D

[MickT]

David, I think you answered your own question in your website!

Number 7 is listed as having its failed chassis replaced by the one from the twin Roco loco in 1987 so although the new chassis was the same vintage as the original one (if a replacement comes from Brian's sales stock then the replacement could easily be older than the original!) the whole loco from 1987 is still not the original loco, but it is still described as the oldest in the fleet.

My own oldest loco is very much an executioners axe (or Trigger's road sweeping broom come to that) - originally built with a bit of biro tube for a chimney and now on its 3rd chimney, originally built onto a Minitrix T3 0-6-0 and has had a Lifelike, then an Ibertren and now nothing under it, but the body remains as still my earliest loco and still carries number 1 in the stocklist!

Doctor Mick's recommended treatment: get yourself up to Mill Hill high street and have a hot curry - Kheema Madras highly recommended

[Graeme Dunbar]

I have my Grandfather's axe.
My father replaced the handle.
I replaced the head.
I have my Grandfather's axe.

(Edit: oh, I should have read the thread more closely. I see axes have already been mentioned!)

I think this conundrum goes back to to ancient Greek times: something along the lines of Jason and Argonauts replacing one plank of the Argo and then another, ... (but I forget the details). There is also the tradition in Japan of rebuilding Shinto shrines and temples periodically to the exact same design.

I understand that as adults we probably retain very few if any of the molecules our body contained when we were born.

Taking a different tack, I understand that for very sensitive scientific instruments, there is a market for metal salvaged from WWI shipwrecks because metal in current circulation is contaminated by nuclear fallout  from the recycled component of it when re-smelted.

[Tigger]

Number 7 is listed as having its failed chassis replaced by the one from the twin Roco loco in 1987 so although the new chassis was the same vintage as the original one (if a replacement comes from Brian's sales stock then the replacement could easily be older than the original!) the whole loco from 1987 is still not the original loco, but it is still described as the oldest in the fleet.

Good point Mick - although in effect it is still an original L&TR power unit!  No 7 may still retain her 'oldest loco' status but having had a good look and the new Roco chassis this morning I realise that there is going to be a substantial rebuild of the body to get the damn thing to fit!  Plus there isn't so much room for ballast!
Perhaps you're right.  I haven't had a decent curry for a couple of weeks!  It might clear my mind...

[Tigger]

I understand that as adults we probably retain very few if any of the molecules our body contained when we were born.

Taking a different tack, I understand that for very sensitive scientific instruments, there is a market for metal salvaged from WWI shipwrecks because metal in current circulation is contaminated by nuclear fallout  from the recycled component of it when re-smelted.

I remember hearing somewhere that our bodies retain none of the cells we had 7 years ago.  So why do tattoos last a lifetime?

Interesting note about the salvaged metals Graeme!

Ah well, tea-break over.  Back to the wagon works...

[Graeme Dunbar]

After mentioning radioactive contamination I wondered if I had perpetuated an urban myth, but it appears not:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1120322

[Tigger]

It does make you wonder how much we're all absorbing. 

[Tigger]

Greetings folks.  This'll horrify the Pugbash Haters but I'm absolutely delighted to be able to announce that after some attention and a bit of TLC the original chassis of old No 7 is back in working order, still with all its original components and remains in service, usually on the works train!  So she's still the oldest loco in the fleet on the Railway's oldest original working chassis.

[B.Meldon]

My thoughts on Pugbashes are well known so I will not go in to that again.

I am amazed that the ex-Roco H0e steam loco

[Graeme Dunbar]

Irrespective of what people think of Pug-bashes, the photo highlights something that has always puzzled me about the Pug kit - why are the spectacles the way they are? To my mind they look as if die maker had intended to bevel the inside to "thin" the plastic around the hole but messed it up by doing it on the wrong face. No L&Y Pug ever looked like that did it?

[MickT]

Irrespective of what people think of Pug-bashes, the photo highlights something that has always puzzled me about the Pug kit - why are the spectacles the way they are? To my mind they look as if die maker had intended to bevel the inside to "thin" the plastic around the hole but messed it up by doing it on the wrong face. No L&Y Pug ever looked like that did it?

Good observation Graeme, but what is fact is that any freelance 009 pug emanating out of a Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol(kit) one will have these spectacles unless "doctored" with brass wire or etched spectacle rims, with the exception of any that are made using the body of a Dapol/Hornby RTR L&Y pug which has much better and already glazed spectacles!

Unless Professor Antipug from the Essex Territories can advise differently...............

What is indisputable is that Tigger's number 7 is a very nice model indeed! Can you remind us how you did the rivets on the front bufferbeam please David?

Mick :D