RTR Loco

[duttonbay]

Shifting  1000 units is a big ask.  I suspect the costs for doing the Minitrains locos were lower beacuse some of the original tooling could be used?

Indeed it is, but in the case of Minitrains there's a world-wide market. Many (perhaps most) are being sold into the US (which is hardly surprising given the prototype of the original two locos). I would be surprised if more than a handful of British 009 locos would be sold there.

[Hobby]

I'm surprised that people seem to be accepting that

[rhobat bryn]

I'm surprised that people seem to be accepting that

[CharlieI]

Ultimately, it's why I find these 'what rtr 009 loco would you like' discussions - which crop up quite often, rather pointless - it is not going to happen.

Put it another way: the 009 society has a membership of about 1200, so everyone of these members - more or less, would need to buy a loco just for the costs to be recovered.  If you actually look at 009 News, 009 events or even the modelling press, there's probably about 200-300 active members - building and exhibiting layouts (and that's probably over optimistic).  The figures simply do not stack up.  End of.

Charlie I

[Hobby]

Its been said before, but I suspect that the only chance of getting a rtr 009 model to break even would be by tapping the Thomas market with the loco based on his NG locos and trying to get the various preserved lines to sell 'em... If you could make the model with a "normal" smokebox door and one with a face in the same box you could possibly get the sales... In effect a slightly bigger version of the Tomix stuff...

[Graeme Dunbar]

Its been said before, but I suspect that the only chance of getting a rtr 009 model to break even would be by tapping the Thomas market with the loco based on his NG locos and trying to get the various preserved lines to sell 'em... If you could make the model with a "normal" smokebox door and one with a face in the same box you could possibly get the sales... In effect a slightly bigger version of the Tomix stuff...

Given that there are established manufacturers who could make a passable NG 009 locomotive by putting a 4 mm body on one of their N gauge chassis with relative ease suggests they have probably already thought of it and dismissed the idea as unprofitable.

It seems to be implied in this thread that "RTR" means mass produced in the far east. Perhaps the market is already saturated by "make 2 and sell 1" builders, modellers who dispose of their models and Paul Windle but if not, there could be an opening for someone say to have resin shells cast, finished, painted and fitted to commercial chassis in modestly sized runs. I doubt it would ever make them rich though.

In Japan it appears that the small brass kit manufacturers have either their own builders and painters or outsource the work and sell RTR versions of their kits. Indeed Parkside Dundas sell kits with RTR chassis (the site says 3 month delivery) which is (sort of) heading in that direction.

I assume that the 009 market is so insignificant that there are no polystyrene kits for a locomotive. There must be people who build Dapol Pugs and Knightwing diesels in their intended state and one wonders why. Yet the manufacturers presumably sell enough of them to make it worth keeping them in production. I can imagine that should a suitable NG loco kit exist the same sort of people that do limited paint runs on rolling stock might just be willing to make them, paint them and fit a chassis. I can't believe that if this was at all feasible some entrepreneur would not have done it already which comes back to the conclusion that 009 is just too insignificant.

Going off into cloud cuckoo land I wonder what sort of investment would be required to commission a plastic "varikit" type thing???

[Tigger]

I think the closest that folks are going to get is Chris Ward's work with his rapid prototyping locos.  These are actually quite excellent and although they'll take a little work to prepare and finish they're well worth the effort.  With the cost of body and chassis, that fact that you get a working loco for

[Darren Hedges]

This might be an appropriate time to mention 'Boldventure Works'.

These are made by taking a readily available N gauge chassis (e.g. the Bachmann Plymouth), and with the addition of cast resin parts for part/all of the body a freelance RTR 009 loco is produced.

The last I heard there were plans to expand the range with further locos plus a range of rolling stock.

They can be contacted at World of Model railways, Meadow Street, Mevagissey, Cornwall, PL26 6UL.

Tel 01726 842457

Darren.

[Graeme Dunbar]

Thanks Darren.

I found this: http://www.model-railway.co.uk/model-shop/index.shtml

but no mention of "Boldventure Works", though the web site is under construction. Do I understand you correctly in that they assemble and paint (or vice versa) the cast bodies and chassis and sell as RTR or are they another kit maker? If the former, it sounds like a first, at least in the UK. I believe the Mocolova (spelling?) resin kits were available on Bachmann chassis ready to go in the USA at one time.

[B.Meldon]

This might be an appropriate time to mention 'Boldventure Works'.

These are made by taking a readily available N gauge chassis (e.g. the Bachmann Plymouth), and with the addition of cast resin parts for part/all of the body a freelance RTR 009 loco is produced.
Darren.

I have mentioned before that a single part resin body for a UK prototype loco was indeed seriously under consideration by one of the 009 kit manufactures a few years ago.
However the chassis that it was going to use, the Bachmann 0-4-0 went out of production. (There was also going to be an outside frame conversion kit for this chassis as well.) This is always a major risk with any body kit designed for an N gauge chassis in that the chassis will go out of production or will be changed in a way that makes it useless for the kit.
This is why many of the 009 kit manufactures are now going for kits with their own chassis.
Personally I would not wish to take the risk of spending time and money developing a body only to find that the chassis is no longer available.

Given that there are established manufacturers who could make a passable NG 009 locomotive by putting a 4 mm body on one of their N gauge chassis with relative ease suggests they have probably already thought of it and dismissed the idea as unprofitable.

Yes that is correct.
Why would any model manufacture spend the time and money designing a UK outline 00 scale NG body for a N gauge chassis in production when a they would sell far more with a European outline HO scale NG body?
There would be little point as the European outline locos sell quite well in the UK anyway!

Brian Meldon

[rhobat bryn]

However the chassis that it was going to use, the Bachmann 0-4-0 went out of production. This is always a major risk with any body kit designed for an N gauge chassis in that the chassis will go out of production or will be changed in a way that makes it useless for the kit.

This merely indicates a lack of communication and coordination between the manufacturers of locomotive bodies and chassises.  Not exactly an insurmountable problem.

[Hobby]

I doubt Bachmann would change their plans for the (possible) sale of a couple of hundred chassis... Now if that kit manufacturer was talking in the thousands they may take note... We need to be realistic, the sales of any 009 loco is measured in the hundreds (if we are lucky) compared to the thousands (or tens of in the case on N gauge locos)... We just ain't a commercial proposition for the large manufacturers...

[B.Meldon]

Blair is correct, there is no way a manufacture would continue to produce a chassis just for a few hundred sales of a product that could also be seen to be in direct competition to one of their own NG range. (Bachmann own Liliput.)

There have however been times when chassis have been made specifically for sale separately for the kit market. Graham Fairish did this for many years. But these chassis are also used in N gauge kits that out sell 009 by about ten to one.

The only time N gauge chassis were actually produced specifically for 009 kits was when Ibretren supplied batches of 0-4-0

[rhobat bryn]

I doubt Bachmann would change their plans for the (possible) sale of a couple of hundred chassis... Now if that kit manufacturer was talking in the thousands they may take note... We need to be realistic, the sales of any 009 loco is measured in the hundreds (if we are lucky) compared to the thousands (or tens of in the case on N gauge locos)... We just ain't a commercial proposition for the large manufacturers...

If large manufacturers are not cooperative, then one needs to look at small-scale manufacturers.  Isn't this what N-Drive Productions is trying to achieve?

[Tigger]

OK, so here's a thought.  A collaboration between Neville Kent and Chris Ward.  Discuss...