Cattle Docks

[L Jackson]

good afternoon,

designing my layout and want to add a country station on my what if North Holdeness line... this line would of had a fair bit of agricultural traffic and was wondering if anyone has any examples on their layouts of cattle docks, milk platforms etc. theres a lot of cattle wagons but not a lot of infrastructure to go with them...

thanks in advance,
Luke

[Graeme Dunbar]

Given we model narrow gauge I suspect most NG agricultural facilities will be quite primitive compared to standard gauge and for standard gauge country stations even there they were fairly simple.

There is an interesting piece here.
https://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/cattledock.htm

and here:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/131684-uks-last-mixed-standard-and-narrow-gauge-welshpool-cattle-docks/



Essentially some means of getting the (farm) stock up to the same level as the (rolling) stock and something to dissuade the animals from going elsewhere such as fencing.

Edit:
I don't know if any NG railways had the equivalent of roadside milk stands.
https://donardimaalhistory.wicklowheritage.org/topics/milk-stands

It may be a false memory but I thought I saw something like one on the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway.

Another thought - being a perishable possibly milk in churns would travel in the guards/luggage van on a small railway?

Edit some more. This is Paddington in the 1920s. Not exactly high tech. People knew how to grunt in those days.
https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/stations-halts/london-stations-paddington-station/collecting-milk-churns-paddington-station-8500789.html?srsltid=AfmBOoryOF3YtPv3SGXFTrXpz3U1tLbDQkdtSTBGPfMacc-CfW6ExCuf

[L Jackson]

Given we model narrow gauge I suspect most NG agricultural facilities will be quite primitive compared to standard gauge and for standard gauge country stations even there they were fairly simple.

Good afternoon,

Thank you, thank you for that, that's a great photo I can use for modelling, when I've tried Google I always get OO or oo9 cattle pens, so thank you for that,

The photos are interesting, I suppose for the milk having an area on a simple raised platform next to the pens or on a station maybe a better option to represent that sort of traffic interface.

Thank you for the help,
Luke

[Graeme Dunbar]

I think what I saw on the line from Cheltenham might have been something like this and not a milk stand (can't link the photo as it is commercial)

https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/milk-churns-luggage-railway-station-trolley-1096316282

https://www.dreamstime.com/old-milk-churns-trolley-hadlow-road-railway-station-wirral-england-uk-grade-listed-heritage-museum-restored-to-look-as-image243874871

There's a lot more photos here:
http://www.gwr.org.uk/nochurns.html

(I used to wait for the school bus by the milk stand of the local farm when I was in my teens. It was just pre-bulk carrier milk tanker days, or maybe the farm was too small to upgrade. I remember the cooler at my father in  law's farm and I think it had been installed when my wife was in her teens.)

[JulienW]

I don't know if any NG railways had the equivalent of roadside milk stands.

I have a feeling that there were some similar things on the Leek & Manifold line...

As to cattle docks I'd suggest the OP has a look at some of the Irish NG lines, particularly the Tralee & Dingle.

[L Jackson]

(I used to wait for the school bus by the milk stand of the local farm when I was in my teens. It was just pre-bulk carrier milk tanker days, or maybe the farm was too small to upgrade. I remember the cooler at my father in  law's farm and I think it had been installed when my wife was in her teens.)

yes, I suspect this is the suit i will go, a cart with some churns on at a station

[L Jackson]

I don't know if any NG railways had the equivalent of roadside milk stands.

I have a feeling that there were some similar things on the Leek & Manifold line...

As to cattle docks I'd suggest the OP has a look at some of the Irish NG lines, particularly the Tralee & Dingle.

Thanks for the tip, I'll take a look at the Irish Narrow gauge

[B.Meldon]

The main issue with building a cattle dock on a 009 layout is the wade range of widths of the 009 locos and rolling stock. If you build the loading dock so it will miss everything it will probably have a big gap between it and the cattle wagons. If you build it for the cattle wagons other items will hit it! The way to 'cheat' around this issue is to ensure you build the cattle dock on the far side of the track to the viewer, in this way the rail vehicles will hide the fact there is a big gap.

[WALLSHIRTS]

Check out plate 107 in the Middleton Press book Welshpool to Llanfair, it's a pretty simple affair and it shows a cattle van.
Mal
P.S. it's a photo of the livestock dock at Llanfair.

[L Jackson]

The main issue with building a cattle dock on a 009 layout is the wade range of widths of the 009 locos and rolling stock. If you build the loading dock so it will miss everything it will probably have a big gap between it and the cattle wagons. If you build it for the cattle wagons other items will hit it! The way to 'cheat' around this issue is to ensure you build the cattle dock on the far side of the track to the viewer, in this way the rail vehicles will hide the fact there is a big gap.

ahh that is a good tip, and not something I have entirely appreciated with this scale. guess things are a lot less "standard" compared to the standard gauge stuff.

[B.Meldon]

ahh that is a good tip, and not something I have entirely appreciated with this scale. guess things are a lot less "standard" compared to the standard gauge stuff.

That is 100% correct, there are no 'standards' in 009 other than the ones you use for your layout!

[Graeme Dunbar]

The thing to bear in mind is 009 covers and represents several different gauges in the 'real world' from say a bit under 2 foot to about 3 foot, and the scale/gauge can be applied to all the various narrow gauge railways in the UK and abroad within that gauge range. The prototype railways themselves were built to serve a wide range of tasks and had their own loading gauge to suit the traffic they carried and their location.

009 has no 'standard' in that respect because there is no standard NG railway. What suits a slate quarry or a munitions depot is not neccesarily what is wanted for passengers and freight on a public carrier line. There are also lines where standard gauge wagons are carried piggyback on rollblocks or transporter wagons so clearances are larger than might be expected.

Possibly the most straight forward approach is find cattle wagon models you like and build to suit that, or do what people do who like to run stock from different prototypes, that is to make the clearances sufficient to handle the largest.

[JulienW]

Possibly the most straight forward approach is find cattle wagon models you like and build to suit that, or do what people do who like to run stock from different prototypes, that is to make the clearances sufficient to handle the largest.

I'd echo Graeme's suggestion.

Looking at kits for NG cattle wagons there's the 009 Society's kit based on the Tralee & Dingle type (note that my built example shown on the website has a custom made corrugated roof - the kit comes with a 'standard' smooth one) and the Welshpool & Llanfair type available from N-Drive Producutions along with 3d printed detailing parts from Ducket Models.

There may also be 3d printed kits out there too - I'd suggest Inoxion Models but they've closed their website for Christmas so I can't provide a link...

The Tralee & Dingle type is at the 'wider' end of the NG envelope as it's a model of a 3' gauge prototype (in fact the one on the 009 website is one of many I've built with 12mm gauge wheelsets!), but I have seen some that were skillfully modified to match the Welshpool type in size.

The Welshpool ones are for a 2' 6" gauge line so will be bigger than the Ffestiniog loading gauge, but then I'd imagine that a line with that small a loading gauge would have a hard time moving cattle in wagons - unless it was one cow to a van!

There may have been other kits in the past (I think Colin Ahsby did a freelance design in plastic for example) but these would be hard to obtain having been out of production for some time.

Some final thoughts.  Once you have decided on the size for the cattle vans you could try getting hold of some of the Airfix / Dapol standard gauge kits and cutting them down to match whatever your 'standard' is, using a Dundas T&D chassis kit or Peco wagon chassis for the running gear. Also, the 009 Society kit is quite versatile with scope for adding variety - different roof types or no roof, and cutting out the small upper panels in the ends for example.

[L Jackson]

Some final thoughts.  Once you have decided on the size for the cattle vans you could try getting hold of some of the Airfix / Dapol standard gauge kits and cutting them down to match whatever your 'standard' is, using a Dundas T&D chassis kit or Peco wagon chassis for the running gear. Also, the 009 Society kit is quite versatile with scope for adding variety - different roof types or no roof, and cutting out the small upper panels in the ends for example.

hello,

thanks for the detailed response. as I am doing a "what if" based on a line that never was I can be quite versatile in my choice, develop my own standard as such. I am familiar with Inoxion, I have a couple of his early buildings.

I like the look of the ducket models and oo9 society kit (quite happy with the little members wagon). do you have photos of the n-drive kit, I'm not sure if I'm just missing them on the website but like the idea of buying a 3-pack

[Graeme Dunbar]

Looking at kits for NG cattle wagons there's the 009 Society's kit based on the Tralee & Dingle type (note that my built example shown on the website has a custom made corrugated roof - the kit comes with a 'standard' smooth one) and the Welshpool & Llanfair type available from N-Drive Producutions along with 3d printed detailing parts from Ducket Models.

There may also be 3d printed kits out there too - I'd suggest Inoxion Models but they've closed their website for Christmas so I can't provide a link...

Nigel Brooks does a 3D print Welshpool one (with cattle!)

https://www.brooks3dmodels.com/#WLLV1

and Rapido will have a 'mini' one. I assume primarily for sheep, but I guess it might take a cow and certainly it should take calfs and possible a couple of heifers or small breed cattle.

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/shop/uk/009-gauge/livestock-wagon/plain-dark-grey-no-16/#:~:text=Livestock%20Wagon%20%E2%80%93%20Plain%20Dark%20Grey,%C2%A3139.95%20%E2%80%93%20%C2%A3179.95