Cross overs

[5113GBAK]

I'm in the proces of drawing together all the bits I need for a layout, my first.  As part of the construction I need to install two right angle crossings.  A number do exist but as a nuby I'm unsure which is the best way to go.  I've mailed various suppliers but most have give me incomplete information for me to proceed.  Can you help me please?
Graham

[JulienW]

AKAIK the only ones I can recall were Shinohara (for HOn30) and maybe US N scale (Atlas or maybe Walthers).

From memory they tend to be 'dead frog' so running 4 wheel locos across them may be an issue (stalling on the dead bits), and a 'live frog' version may need to be hand built.

It may help to either ask the questions you've sent to the manufacturers here (as we don't know what information you are after) or tell us who the manufacturers are so we may get a better idea of what you have in mind and what the pluses and minuses might be for each.

[B.Meldon]

The only way to get reliable slow running across a crossover in 009 is to make one yourself that is fully powered with no dead plastic sections. It has to be full electrofroig.
This will require some method of switching depending on the direction of travel.

The problem is with 009 four wheel locos on a 90 degree crossing one wheel on each side will be on the plastic section of the crossover not picking up power. The loco will be fully reliant on the other wheel for power connection to the track. This may work ok when the loco is new but as soon as it starts to ware a little there is a chance that the other wheel will lift off the track slightly. This will make the loco stall at slow speed.

Diamond crossings have another issue in that depending on the wheel spacing both wheels will be on the plastic section at the same time. For example the wheelbas of the Bachmann quarry Hunslets is exactly the same as the Peco diamond crossing!!

[Hugh Norwood]

Some years ago, Ted Polet upgraded (installed?) a cross-over in the station on his layout. He documented how he built the crossover over on the ngrm-online forum (and made it look easy!)

I've just tried to find it, without success, but it's there somewhere...

[Graeme Dunbar]

I found this YouTube video of wiring a Peco diamond crossing, albeit OO gauge.

Do you know which manufacturer (or selection of manufacturers) you are considering? (I can see a few options looking at the track libraries in AnyRail.)

[Ian McAulay]

A 90 degree diamond is fairly hard to find. Many moons ago, I used the Atlas N gauge one (on an N gauge layout!). It's code 80 rail, so compatible with Peco 009. I'm not sure if the one I used has been superseded by a more recent offering, but this is the current one: https://shop.atlasrr.com/p-1612-n-90-degree-crossing.aspx It's available from plenty of UK traders too.

All 4 frogs on the Atlas crossing are insulated. That makes the wiring dead easy - it's all done for you.

The good thing is that being 90 degrees, the insulated sections are very short. There are two bad things. (1) because the tracks are at 90 degrees, both wheels on a wheelset hit them at the same time. (2) because there are 2 pairs of frogs, you can be unlucky enough to have the spacing match or be close to the axle spacing on a 4 wheel chassis. I remember that a Graham Farish motor bogie tended to hesitate across the crossing, even though the wheelbase was quite a bit longer than the spacing between the frogs.

I suspect that if you want live frog, you will have to build it yourself. With all 4 frogs live, the wiring will be exactly the same as any other live frog diamond, irrespective of the crossing angle.

I hope that helps

Ian

[B.Meldon]

Like Hugh I tried to find Ted Polet's description of his all live frog, self built crossing, and like Hugh I could not find it!

That is by far the best way to do it, to get 100% reliable running.

Fron memory Ted switched the power using the points either side.

[Graeme Dunbar]

I wonder if any of the commercial diamond crossings (and specifically any of the 90 degree ones) are "live frog"? I suspect not.

[duttonbay]

Ted Polet's description of constructing his live-frog diamond is here:
https://ngrm-online.com/index.php?/forums/topic/7351-reconstruction-work-at-dunalistair/page/3/#comment-197207

I guess you would need to be a member of NGRM to be able to see the posts, though.

[Graeme Dunbar]

Ted Polet's description of constructing his live-frog diamond is here:
https://ngrm-online.com/index.php?/forums/topic/7351-reconstruction-work-at-dunalistair/page/3/#comment-197207

I guess you would need to be a member of NGRM to be able to see the posts, though.

Thanks. The operative bit comes at the end of Ted's piece I think - "Also, note that the rails will have to be gapped between each of the four crossing" in order to prevent shorts.

If I've understood his construction correctly, it is cunning how he files the rails down to the foot etc. in order to make what I take to be scarf joints at the crossing noses and hence keep the rails themselves true through the crossing, doing it the "obvious" way of soldering up four 90 degree crossing noses and then trying to arrange them in a cross.

I had visions of a maker trying to solder tiny (9 mm gauge minus two flangeways for a 90 degree crossing) pieces of rail in the middle of the diamond.

[B.Meldon]

I wonder if any of the commercial diamond crossings (and specifically any of the 90 degree ones) are "live frog"? I suspect not.

None of the commercial diamond crossings are live frog.

[5113GBAK]

Gentlemen
I'm  back
I've just been informed that the Atlas 90 degree crossing is no longer produced, it only too 5 months for them to get back to me.  I still need two so I wonder if a Kato crossing would work.  I am aware the track has it's own raised ballast moulding, but I wonder if the track could be lowered into the base board, (like cutting away the cork underlay for example)  To my mind as long as the top of the rails were aligned it should work.

Any opinions please?

[Graeme Dunbar]

If you can find them, Kato make a Kato Unitrack to Peco conversion track piece so the the track systems are in essence compatible.

[Ian McAulay]

Still one in stock via Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Atlas-2569-Code-Degree-Crossing/dp/B0006KSLQ4

[B.Meldon]

The kato Unitrack N gauge crossing may not be suitable.
The rail profile will not be the same as Peco, so you may well have issues with fishplates, also you may find that the rail height is not the same causing a step in the railhead at the joint. The adapter rail may sort this out.
However, the main issue is that, as with all the ready to run crossings, there is a dead plastic section that will almost ceryainly cause you locos to stall at slow speeds. You may also find issues with the depth of the flangways not being deep enough lifting the loco up and/or that both wheels will go down the gap causing the loco to drop!

As I mentioned before last year crossings are not good in 009 and should be avoided at all costs if at all posiable, you will almost certainly have running issues if you have one on your layout.
Planning layouts without them is by far the best way to go.

But others may have had better experiances.