Problems with Peco 009 points

[B.Meldon]

Thank you Brian, I find I am a bit confused regards all this, will have to study it more, the grey matter is slow taking it in. I did hear once at one of the exhibitions that the way you fasten the points to the baseboard made all the difference, but did not remember the instructions when making my two layouts, trouble with points is my frustration at the present time, will see if I can work out your excellent advice.

Perhaps I miss understood you.

All our trackbed is made from

[rhobat bryn]

All our trackbed is made from

[Graeme Dunbar]

My method of fixing the track down is different, but I can confirm that 6 mm plywood makes a good strong (and more importantly, stiff) and light baseboard. Yes it can "drum" but this can be damped out if neccessary. Iain Rice recommends spray can builders foam sprayed into the cavity underneath.

[rhobat bryn]

My method of fixing the track down is different, but I can confirm that 6 mm plywood makes a good strong (and more importantly, stiff) and light baseboard. Yes it can "drum" but this can be damped out if neccessary. Iain Rice recommends spray can builders foam sprayed into the cavity underneath.

May I pursue this a little further?  My main baseboard is made from Sundeala (or is it MDF?).  Would it be possible to lay the plywood onto that surface or does this belong the book of 009 heresy?  Also could you explain in a little more detail what is meant by the cavity underneath?

Much obliged in advance.

[invercloy]

I don't really see the point in laying ply on top of the MDF, you'll just be adding weight to it.  The running qualities or sound transmission into the baseboard can't be that different and therefore you're just creating extra work.

Re. sound deadening I've taken a different approach to track laying.  All my baseboards have a 12mm ply running surface due to it being an exhibition layout which has to be lifted out of a loft through a hatch every time it is to be transported.  Some may say it's overkill, but i'd rather over-engineer than under.

On top of the ply I've glued some laminate floor underlay foam, this is about

[duttonbay]

My main baseboard is made from Sundeala (or is it MDF?).

I may be wrong here, as we don't get Sundalea in Australia, but I believe there's a big difference between Sundalea and MDF. Sundalea is made from compressed paper, while MDF (Medium Density Fibreboard) is very heavy, and made from wood. MDF is very smooth in appearance, on both sides, and very hard. Very difficult to insert a track pin without pre-drilling. Sundalea is light in weight, also sold as a pin board, with pins able to pushed in by hand.

[JulienW]

I have always thought of Sundela as essentially Low Density Fiberboard in comarison to MDF, John and I suspect that 'pinboard' is much the same as Sundela.

It is even harder to get track pins into Ply, Rhobat, so adding a layer on top of the MDF (or Sundela) will just make life more dificult for yourself and needlessly add weight as Tom suggets.

Time for a science (ish) bit!

If one looks at the innards of a piano beneth (or behind if its an upright) the strings is a large flat bit of wood known as the sound board that essentially amplifies the vibrations from the strings.  One of the usual methods of basebord construction is a (soft)wood frame with a flat sheet (MDF or Sundela) fixed on top to produce a flat surface, and this board acts much the same as the sound board in a piano and amplifies the sounds of the stock, especially noisy motors and gear trains, running on the rails on the top.  'Open frame' basebords (essentially a wooden structure with flat sections only under the tracks with the scenery being self supporting chicken wire) are less prone to this effect but can still suffer from it.

To reduce the noise amplification one needs to add some dampening (much like a car's shock absorbers dampen the vibrations from the road).  This can be done by having a 'softer' material between the track and basebord top - the usual one being cork tiles though sheet foam can be used.  Anothger way is to absorb the sound into something below the basebord.  One could use builders foam sprayed on, though this could make accessing wires, point motors, etc. dificult unless some thought is put in first - personally I would use something like the pink (or blue) polystyrene insulation foam sold by B&Q and others would be better as this can be cut to shape to fit in.  As an aside, such materials have been used to construct the basebord from - Pempoule (spelling?) is one example that comes to mind - and may be worth looking into (a google search is probably a good start).

Sorry this has gone a little off the"Problems with Peco 009 points" topic and more into basebord construction but hopefully it answers some questions.

[B.Meldon]

Perhaps some photos may help......

These are photos of the late Jack Carter

[pilotfriend]

I have just spoken with Peco technical and while they have changed the blade design, they have not changed the frog. They also seem to be unaware that there are problems.

[pilotfriend]

This is what CG looks like at present after the total removal of Peco 12" crazy points. These remained the main reliability issue.

[B.Meldon]

John

As well as eliminating the 12

[pilotfriend]

YOU CAN SAFELY BET ON ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BRIAN!

[membership]

All of this makes me quite depressed as it means I have been blaming myself all this time for being a bad modeler when the problem, at least in part is because I have been using a product with an inherent design flaw. I wonder how many people have just given up and found another hobby?

[pilotfriend]

The Sundeala dogma was launched early post war when it was difficult to obtain materials. It has somehow carried on despite being rubbish. It is a bit like the myth that carrots help you see in the dark. This was a mis-information to try to hide night radar interception of German bombers.

The only people who believed it was post war British mums!

[rhobat bryn]

I must be missing something.  How did the use of Sundeala help to hide night radar interceptions of German bombers?