Heljan

[Ian Holmes]

Why are Heljan spares so hard to obtain?  I have tried every outlet from Gaugemaster to Howes and Heljan themselves but to no avail. Has anyone had the same problem? and how did you get round it? Presently it has been sitting on a shelf in a repair shop for 3 months. A wonderful model but am very disapointed with the after sales and servicee they provide and would not buy another £200 from them.
Ian H

[JulienW]

My feeling is that it is not just Heljan but a symptom of modern production techniques and spare parts for many of the mainstream manufacturers are not that easy to obtain.

It seems the modern production method is to contract to produce a batch of model railway locos - in any scale / gauge combination. Production facilities then compete to offer the best price to make said batch (10,000 models say) whilst making a sufficient profit for themselves.

This means that, for example, there will be a limited number of a particular livery and practically no spare parts (there isn't any profit in making the parts and not turning them into a finished product).

As you haven't said what spares you are after (or even which Heljan loco) it's a little difficult to advise further...

[B.Meldon]

Julien is correct.
These days the models are produced in batches in one of the factories in China.
They only make enough parts for the production run, often with several of the individual components of the same material all produced in one moulding die.

These factories do give a type of warranty to their customers, but this is usually in the form of a monetary compensation, not any form of repair or replacement, unless another batch is in production.
In addition the manufactures have to book a stot at the factories to produce their items. In some cases it can be several months before a production slot is available. 

Regarding the Heljan 2-6-2 locos, there have now been two different versions made from two different factories in China. The early version and the later version, so some of the components have been changed. Sadly if you have an early version that has a component that is different from the later version, you may well find that there will never be any of the parts you need available.

As has been mentioned before, with these locos, if purchasing from new when they fail, and for up to a year after, it is best to request a replacement or a refund as a repair may never happen. Obviously if it is second hand or over a year old it would then be up to the discretion of who ever sold it to you if they re-fund, replace or do nouthing!

[Robin Webster]

 Oh yes I had problems with two different manufacturers. Rivarossi and Liliput. Both models were HO scale based on standard gauge locomotives.
The Rivarossi was a pt 3/6 tank locomotive in Bavarian green. It stripped its main geared drive wheel. I contacted Rivarossi but received no answer. This was way back when snail mail was main mail. 1st class post was by hot air balloon and 2nd by sail boat. Phone number did not exist. I tried many times only to find out the company had folded.
The model was a static dust collected for many years.
My Liliput was a fast passanger 4-6-2 main line locomotive. It broke its eccentric crank pin to rod connection. Once again I went through the whole procedure of contacting them etc. In this case I did get a reply back from Austria.They told me I had to send x amount of Austrian Schillings. Long story short, I did what they asked. Waiting 6 months plus I received  4 drive rod screws and a pickup strip. Hallelujah! They too went bust.
I guess that's where 3d printed parts can help us out today.

Robin.

[B.Meldon]

I do not think that Liliput ever went bust. I think you will find that the company was purchased by Bachmann, and production was then moved to China and the Austrian part of the company was closed with buildings sold.
Before that happened Liliput used to wait untill they were making another batch of the same item and then provide the parts that customers had pre-ordered and paid for in advance, sometimes over a year before!

Yes Rivarossi, that by then included Lima, Arnold and Jouef went into receivership in 2003.
Hornby would later purchase the assets only.

To have a loco produced in China to order works out very much cheaper than producing the same loco in your own factory in Europe.

[Ian Holmes]

Hi Guys.
Seems like the old saying, "Buyer Beware" but I still think that some manufacturers are putting profit before customer service and before long will have a bad reputation that customers will run a mile from, so sorry Heljan here goes your 1st lost customer.
Ian H

[JulienW]

Ian, I can understand your frustration and subsequent reluctance to buy another Heljan loco, and based on the numbers of comments about the first batches of L&B 2-6-2 you are not the only one.

But you still haven't told us what spares are needed for your Hejan loco, or even which loco it is - L&B Manning Wardle 2-6-2, Baldwin 2-4-2 or something for a wider gauge.

Many of the issues with the early Heljan 2-6-2 locos can be rectified without needing spares, and if these are needed then it may be possible to source some parts elsewhere, but as you haven't told us what the problem is then as such it make it very difficult for anyone to offer any advice.

[B.Meldon]

Hi Guys.
Seems like the old saying, "Buyer Beware" but I still think that some manufacturers are putting profit before customer service and before long will have a bad reputation that customers will run a mile from, so sorry Heljan here goes your 1st lost customer.
Ian H

If you purchased the loco new then you would have been able to return it for a replacement or a re-fund.

However, if it was second hand at a reduced price then yes like with all second hand items it would be 'buyer beware'.
That said the 009 Society offer no quible returns on items purchased from them. If you do not like it you can send it back. All it will cost you is the postage.
Regarding the Heljan 009 2-6-2 because of the problems I would never purchase one new at full price.
I would however purchase a faulty one at a very cheap price and then take the chance that I could fix it myself without factory spare parts.

I understand that there have been issues with other 00 standard gauge Heljan locos.

Regarding the profit on the models, to re-coupe the design and development time there has to be a profit on the manufacture.

Up to very recently the cost of production in Europe has been far more than that of China and the models would be far more expensive to purchase as a result.
However, things are changing and the latest batch of Minitrains locos have been made, or at least assembled in Germany!

[Robin Webster]

Out of curiosity what are/ were the problems with the Heljan locomotives. I don't own any of their products.
Robin.

[JulienW]

From memory Robin:

Issues with the fixing of the cranks to the axles - or was it crank pins in the cranks. Probably caused by oil contamination of the joint before adhesive was applied

Pony trucks sprung in such a way that it took weight off the driving wheels. Probably something to do with them picking up current and being incorrectly sprung.

Couplings being in the wrong plain. I suspect this was linked to the pony truck issues but may have been with the design of the cow catchers forcing the couplings upwards.

Inability to take curves. Part of this was to do with the pony truck sprinting, with as much (maybe more?) to do with purchasers expecting a large 2-6-2 to go around the same curves as a quarry Hunslet (or even one's a QH would bails at).

I also have a feeling some issues with the gearing were reported (a slipping gear on an axle could be caused by oil contamination again, though some may have had split gears due to engineering tolerances or poor building) along with issue with the valve gear (which could have been manufacturing issues and could have been purchaser handling issues as these are a bit more delicate that a white metal body on a Minitrix chassis).

In essence the early batches of locos needed a bit of fettling, which when you have spent about £200 on the thing needs a bit of experience and courage to undertake (and really shouldn't be needed), and perhaps part of the reason someone would be buying a Heljan loco is because the don't fancy building a kit (Backwoods brass, white metal or what have you).

The later batches of 2-6-2 are supposed to be better (they have less issues but maybe they haven't got rid of them all?). As yet I haven't heard anything about the Baldwin 2-4-2s.

One thing I will add though is that some people have not had any problems with them, as I recall a chap running a pair of the 2-6-2 locos all weekend at the Welshpool gala a few years  ago (just after the locos had come out) without any issues.

[Robin Webster]

Thanks Julien. That's a lot of money to spend on a loco that did not meet expectations.

[B.Meldon]

I will add a couple more issues with the 2-6-2's:

Firstly the wheels have a flat edge to the flanges.

The pony truck piviots are also too far away from the nearest driving wheel, and the pony truck axles are free to move side to side somewhat in the pony truck. The result is that the pony truck wheels are at the wrong angle to the track on curves, including in points. The tighter the curve the worse the problem.

A combination of the pony truck wheels at the wrong angle and the flat edges to the wheel flanges can often result in the pony truck wheels ridding up in points or at poor rail joints and de-railing.

There is little that can be done about the location of the pony truck piviots on the chassis, but changing the pony truck wheels for Graham Farrish wheels of the same size and placing spacers on the pony truck axles to limit the side to side movement in the trucks will in the most part sort out the worst of these problems.

It would also help to replace the actual pony trucks with metal ones.

Do not use the contacts on the pony truck wheels. They are more bother than they are worth. Just bend them out the way!

As mentioned some have got on ok with these locos, but they are few and far between!!