Couplings

[David Thompson]

I tried to search for this but came up blank so here goes.

I have some rolling stock with brand new Peco couplings and some older stuff I am making up Greenwich couplings for.

Will the two different couplings work together and if so can the Peco be made to decouple via the Greenwich magnets?

Is there another coupling out there that would match with the Peco or Greenwich and provide magnetic decoupling?

When uncoupling can the uncoupled stock be pushed back and moved away from without recoupling?

Thanks

[NeilMac]

The Peco coupling can be altered to uncouple magnetically. I was just about to mention this on my Rolling Stock thread. Although I have not tried this yet myself, I have done it in the past on Bemo couplings.
Google something like Peco coupling converted to magnetic uncoupling and you shoud get some images of how it is done, but basically you need to a steel wire tail to the coupler drop arm such that it extends horizontally, or slightly down, toward the centre of the wagon. The magnet grabs this, pulls it down, and the coupler goes up.
I am planning to make mine delayed action. I think it can be done, but that would be a longer topic. Keep an eye on my thread for results if and when I do try it for myself.

[Robin Webster]

Ah yes.... Couplers!
After 5 years in HOe/009 this is one subject I have not resolved yet with my models. I've recently purchased a height gauge from RT models and going to give it another go.
Lucky I have only 3 peco wagons. One has stiff loops and the other two sag. My kit and scratch built models don't suffer the coupler virus.
This subject could have its own dedicated heading. A how to guide for beginners. Some thing like kadee and Microtrains.
Robin.

[B.Meldon]

The Peco ones will couple up to the Greenwich ones.
You may find it easier to replace the Peco couplings with the NEM version of the Greenwich coupling rather than modifying the Peco couplings so they work with magnets.

They do not have a delayed action so no you can not push them back after using the uncoupling magnet.
 
The critical thing with 009 couplings is making sure that the loops are all at the same height and horizontal.
Unfortunately you will find that hardly any manufactures mount their couplings at the same height, some even have different heights within their own range, so some adjustments may well be needed to get everything at the same height.

[JulienW]

(Perhaps we need an FAQ section to cover this Anyhow...)

There are essentially 3 basic types of coupling commonly(*) used in 009.

1. the 'knuckle' type using the KaDee (or Kay Dee, however it's spelt) though I understand the smaller sizes used by 009ers is made by Microtrains. Looks very much like a scaled down version of a full size knuckle coupling, but as these had somewhat limited use on UK narrow gauge tend to be favoured by US outline modellers (i.e. those who model US lines - not those shaped like the country).  They are also not that easy to obtain in the UK needing to be imported from the US. They are also only compatible with other knuckle couplings and need jigs to build them and fix them to stock correctly.

Because of these factors they are not that widely used.

2. The 'Elsie' coupling is essentially the one fitted to N gauge stock as standard. As such it is fairly easy to obtain (just ask a fellow 009er for their cast offs!) but is not that widely used in 009 circles (hence why most tend to give them away!) and is only compatible with other 'elsie' couplings.

3. The 'central buffer with lifting loop' is by far the most popular type, and the various sub-types - Greenwich, Bemo, Liliput, Peco, Windle, etc. - that all use the same system can be coupled up to each other, with the caveat that they are all set to the same height.  Being widely available and cross-compatible (unlike Elsie and Knuckle types) they are very popular and are probably the better choice if you want to run your stock on other 009 layouts (and dare I say may have a better resale value).

So, having covered the basics I'll turn to David's questions:

I tried to search for this but came up blank so here goes.

I have some rolling stock with brand new Peco couplings and some older stuff I am making up Greenwich couplings for.

Will the two different couplings work together and if so can the Peco be made to decouple via the Greenwich magnets?

So, your Peco couplings and Greenwich couplings should work together, but you just need to be sure that you have them set at the correct height. Annoyingly there isn't an agreed standard (combining 'standards' and '009' seem to cause toys to be thrown out of prams at times!) but it's probably a good idea to either buy yourself one of the cast resin height gauges from RT Models for less than a fiver or to make yourself one from a short bit of track fixed to a bit of wood with a flat-topped wood screw inserted into the wood between the rails at one end and screwed in so that the top of the head acts as the gauge for the coupling height (usually so the loop at rest sits on top of the screw head).  The advantage of the RT gauge is that they seem to be quite widely used so if you use one yourself it's quite likely that your couplings will match someone elses (they should if both of you have used the same gauge), whereas with the home made job you can set the couplings to whatever height you like. IIRC whilst somewhere between 5 and 6 mm is the norm you could go lower or higher with the risk that your stock will not hook up to anyone else's.

Is there another coupling out there that would match with the Peco or Greenwich and provide magnetic decoupling?

When uncoupling can the uncoupled stock be pushed back and moved away from without recoupling?

Thanks

As supplied the Peco couplings will not work via magnetism, though they can be modified to do so. Essentially one adds some steel wire to the bottom 'ear' of the loop, and this method can also be applied to most of the other 'lifting loop' type couplings.

Also, as supplied the Greenwich couplings do not have the 'delayed action' to stop them 'recoupling' so stock can be propelled into a siding and left as the rest of the train pulls back.  They can be adapted by adding a horizontal wire sticking out from the end of the rolling stock above the coupling to prevent the loop dropping back down once the magnetic field is removed.

There is, however, the DG coupling that has a delayed action built in and works via magnetism (electromagnets or movable permanent magnets) which I have used myself. These are supplied as a etched kit (much like the Greenwich ones) and have the advantage of being one of the smallest / least obtrusive designed for 009, and if you use their 'type A' or 'type D' versions (both are the same size but the type D is etched from slightly thicker metal) they should also be compatible with the other usual 009 lifting loop types (mine certainly are). I use mine with electromagnets which i power with 15v AC (from an old plug in transformer from a modem) rather than 12v DC as the latter tends to make permanent magnets of both the steel droppers on the couplings and the electromagnet's steel cores.

DG couplings can be purchased from Wizard Models.

Hope that helps.

(Edit: I'd meant to add something about the * above but forgot so here goes:
I say 'commonly' but as one can be fairly sure there are other types out there that don't fit into any of the 3 mentioned 'categories'. Whatever they are it's unlikely they'll be readily compatible with anything other than themselves.)

[JulienW]

Just realised that I have a photo on Flickr of my home made height gauge.

IMG_0784 by Julien Webb, on Flickr

It also shows a DG coupling attached to a Dundas L&B van

[Robin Webster]

Thanks Julien. This has been very very informative. I did not know that there was another option besides Greenwich.
This is a subject that comes up when us novices really don't know what to look for.
Once again thanks.
Robin.

[Hugh Norwood]

I think it is safe to mention that there is quite am extensive section on couplings in the forthcoming Handbook! :)

(just hope we've covered all of it!)

[Robin Webster]

Excellent news, thanks.

[David Thompson]

Thank you Julian, one of the most well written and informative answers seen on any forum anywhere. This is exactly what I wanted to know and you achieved it without any of the oft seen attitudes of superiority.
An object lesson for others.
Once again, thank you ,😃

[JulienW]

Thanks Julien. This has been very very informative. I did not know that there was another option besides Greenwich.
This is a subject that comes up when us novices really don't know what to look for.
Once again thanks.
Robin.

Thank you Julian, one of the most well written and informative answers seen on any forum anywhere. This is exactly what I wanted to know and you achieved it without any of the oft seen attitudes of superiority.
An object lesson for others.
Once again, thank you ,😃

Glad I could help. :)

To be honest it's one of the most frequent questions I get when manning the West Midlands Group & 009 Society publicity & demonstration stand at shows so it's not as if it isn't a well rehearsed answer, and with the eclectic selection of stock from the group on display there's usually examples of several different types of coupling to illustrate the 'lecture' with.

[Hugh Norwood]

That's a good idea, Julien, for other Society stands - (not wishing to burden those gents with more work)

Do you include a short section of track with a magnet to demonstrate uncoupling too?

[JulienW]

No, but it might not be a bad idea when/if things get back to normal (or what passes for it around here).

[Graeme Dunbar]

I like the idea.

A short length of track on a small plank of wood or similar for showing couplings (or any sample of stock) would be something many us could have a go at if wanted for exhibiting. An uncoupler ramp and magnet and even a coupling height jig at one end could be a good thing to have to hand to bring out if anyone is interested. It does not need to be a set part of an exhibition display. A height jig is something to show if anyone asks about reliable uncoupling. (A couple of small 'planks' are just visible in the top photo in the Aberdeen Exhibition report in the January News - plug - plug  ;) )

I've seen things with a similar purpose on MERG stands and done a couple myself, e.g. having a turnout by itself on a small bit of baseboard barely bigger than itself that can be turned over to see the actuator and wiring underneath.

On the educational front another short 'demo plank' with deliberate reverse curve might be useful to illustrate coupling swing... etc. etc.

There is a Layout Design SIG in the process of being set up. Perhaps things like this are something that could be discussed there? I think placement of uncouplers is the sort of thing that might come under 'layout design'

[Hugh Norwood]

Ah! - I've not (yet) put uncoupling magnets on Angst mainly because I don't really know where they should be put....