New Chassis Sales without bodies?

[B.Meldon]

Yes it was in the box that the loco was in, for what that's worth, boxes come cheap, it proves that the box isn't an issue, though.

I think this may well have been one with a fault in the body during manufacture. This does happen from time to time, sometimes with an entire batch! The faulty body has probably been removed, or even returned to the factory and Bachmann have probably been credited for the entire loco and can then sell the chassis at a discounted price.

[Frank]

An alternative to persuading a manufacturer to sell chassis on there own would be to produce one or more chassis kits, or to facilitate some of the small manufacrurers to produce chassis kits by producing wheels, which are the key things we do not have in 009.

Frank

[Robin Webster]

For argument sake, let's say a chassis/frame was made. Then comes the question of inside framed or outside.
Wheels, gearing (all wheel drive or side rod driven) quartering, motor, worm, rivets or screws to secure the side rods to the wheels, cranks, electrical pick ups etc, etc.
How many of us have the dexterity to assemble something so small and intricate. Some of us would be so frustrated at the fact of putting it together only to find out it is binding some where.... but where? Now I'm not being negative I'm just throwing this out there.
I can't see myself assembling a kit like this. I don't have that patience any more.
Robin.

[Hobby]

I agree with you Robin, hence my suggestion for RTR chassis. As the Kato 103/4/9 has proved accuracy is not something many 009 modelers worry about, something that runs that they can fit under a kit or 3d print body without having to fiddle around assembling it is more important!

[Graeme Dunbar]

Playing devil's advocate here, if one is not too fussy and it is a matter of something to bung under a 3D printed body, it is not so much a matter of chassis not being manufactured, but of availability in the UK, e.g.

https://www.plazajapan.com/4957265140360/

though I may have spoken too soon as I see they are sold out on Hobby Search

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10712618



One can hope that they sell well, and manufacturers take note and think they can see a potential market for something a little more powerful and slow running. Perhaps consumer pressure in Japan on seeing that reasonably priced smooth running chassis can be done will demand it. Maybe the Shorty tram and multiple unit market is saturated and consumers are looking for something else. Who knows?

[Frank]

For argument sake, let's say a chassis/frame was made. Then comes the question of inside framed or outside.
Wheels, gearing (all wheel drive or side rod driven) quartering, motor, worm, rivets or screws to secure the side rods to the wheels, cranks, electrical pick ups etc, etc.
How many of us have the dexterity to assemble something so small and intricate. Some of us would be so frustrated at the fact of putting it together only to find out it is binding some where.... but where? Now I'm not being negative I'm just throwing this out there.
I can't see myself assembling a kit like this. I don't have that patience any more.
Robin.

These are all good questions.

We are complaining about old chassis being no longer available - these were all inside framed, and people still used them.  It might be possible to have an inside frame chassis with additional cosmetic outside frames as an option, if you designed it with that in mind.

Similarly, the wheelbase of the old chassis was generally not exact but near enough for people to accept them.  Maybe a well thought out way of making the kits could do several wheelbases?  Say etches with different wheelbases and corresponding rods?  Or 3D printed variations?

Rod, gear or layshaft drive are all possible alternatives, but these are details for the team designing the chassis to sort out.  Ditto pickups.

Assembly depends on how it is designed but there are "fold up" chassis designs out there that are easy to assemble.   Or it could be 3D printed so as to be easy to assemble, say screw together.

Not everyone would want to tackle building their own chassis, but some would, maybe quite a few if it was made easy, and at the moment we have no chassis at all for many of the body kits that exist.

All I am saying is that it would be a good idea for someone in the Society to look into this as a possible way forwards.

For me, the main stopper at the moment is the lack of wheels, and this is something the Society could address.

Frank

[B.Meldon]

For those that may not know Neil Moss of Mosskito Narrow Gauge has developed and produced a range of 6.2mm and 8mm wheels and axles intended for outside frame loco chassis that have square mounts on the axles ends making quatering a doddle.
The axles are 2mm and designed to fit the Tenshodo power bogie worm gear.

https://www.lightrailwaystores.co.uk/collections/mosskito-narrow-gauge/products/mosskito-6-2mm-dia-wheelset-with-extended-axle-and-cranks

https://www.lightrailwaystores.co.uk/collections/mosskito-narrow-gauge/products/mosskito-8-0mm-dia-wheelset-with-extended-axle-and-cranks

Neil Moss has also been responsiable for the design, development and production of the Greenwich wheels that are now supplied in most, if not all the 009 Society and Dundas rolling stock kits.

[B.Meldon]

Playing devil's advocate here, if one is not too fussy and it is a matter of something to bung under a 3D printed body, it is not so much a matter of chassis not being manufactured, but of availability in the UK, e.g.

https://www.plazajapan.com/4957265140360/

though I may have spoken too soon as I see they are sold out on Hobby Search

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10712618



One can hope that they sell well, and manufacturers take note and think they can see a potential market for something a little more powerful and slow running. Perhaps consumer pressure in Japan on seeing that reasonably priced smooth running chassis can be done will demand it. Maybe the Shorty tram and multiple unit market is saturated and consumers are looking for something else. Who knows?

These tiny chassis do not run well!
They are fine for going round and round, but they require more power to get them going from a standing start so are not good on layouts that require stop start opperation and they are useless for shuntting. Changing the motor can help a bit, but it is the gearing that is the problem. Adding a resistor just saps the motor of power, and it is not very strong in the first place.
They also end up with contact problems after only a short amount of use.

I would not recomend their use in a 009 loco, or at all come to that!

[Hobby]

I'm not convinced about a chassis kit, yes it would allow people to have a chassis neared scale for their chosen prototype but I would seriously question whether most 009 modellers would want or buy them. It is clear from the use of chassis that are not particularly suitable that many (majority?) of 009 modellers don't hold chassis accuracy as a priority. I'd suggest, however, that they do regard the chassis as being RTR in high regard. Many won't even add a cylinder and connecting rods to the Farish 08 even though they are available... In theory we already have the answer for 0-4-0 chassis in the N Drive version, the issue is the lack of production in the numbers needed.

[Graeme Dunbar]

We hear Kato and Bachmann have been approached. Has anyone contacted or is it worth contacting Andreas Schönfeld at Minitrains?

[B.Meldon]

We hear Kato and Bachmann have been approached. Has anyone contacted or is it worth contacting Andreas Schönfeld at Minitrains?

Yes it is worth asking as I think Andreas is a member of the 009 Society.

I would guess his response would be based on the popularity of the chassis that he has previoulsy sold via 009 society sales. But I would guess he sold a lot more complete locos of any given type than the chassis on their own.

[Julian Evison]

We hear Kato and Bachmann have been approached. Has anyone contacted or is it worth contacting Andreas Schönfeld at Minitrains?

Good idea, Graeme, as I don't think we have been in contact with him recently. I will investigate, but please don't expect anything quickly as there will be many steps to take.

Julian

[Stephen Rainsbury]

I wonder if Sven from Tramfabriek has ever thought about it?  he already sells motor kits and wheels  ???

And I am glad I just looked because I hadn't noticed that he does a complete motor kit for the old Jouef Decauville locos, and I have to say that I am very tempted.

[B.Meldon]

I wonder if Sven from Tramfabriek has ever thought about it?  he already sells motor kits and wheels  ???

And I am glad I just looked because I hadn't noticed that he does a complete motor kit for the old Jouef Decauville locos, and I have to say that I am very tempted.

The hard part about producing a chassis is the gears and wheels. As mentioned above wheels for outside frame chassis have been addressed my Neil Moss, but gears are another matter.

[Graeme Dunbar]

Related to gears and wheels, an aspect that can be challenging and a huge risk for a producer is second sourcing of components. There may be a certain minimum quantity that makes production economic and the maker might go with that or invest in a stock that is likely to last for the foreseeable future. That can be a big risk and financial burden. For some items it may be possible to follow the industry 'just in time' principle but that may also be a challenge for a small producer.

Second sourcing (at one removed) of chassis has been I presume a bugbear of producers of whitemetal kits.

I guess this is where products such as etched brass kits or 3D prints are a 'safer' option than small scale chassis or chassis kit production and why there is so much choice. At least there is the fallback of producing non-powered or even non-wheeled, non-railway products.

If a sustainable source of chassis from small producers is desirable then it may be worth considering how the modelling community could support them other than simply buying the end product.