Robust flat wagons?

[David Weber]

Is it just me, or is it quite hard to make model flat wagons that don't warp or bend? Especially bogie flats? I made a pair of plastic flats out of coach kit chassis and they now have a lump in the middle where the ballast weights are attached underneath. I see lots of pictures online of curved flat wagons, even in kit manufacturers publicity pictures! There were some quite nice American HOn30 resin flatcar kits - doing their best to impersonate bananas.......

Is there any trick to making flat wagons actually flat? A particular material or construction technique perhaps?

[Robin Webster]

David, funny that you bring this up. I am making a bogie flat wagon right now using hard wood strips as it's frame and the deck made of cardboard from a old calender. I laminated / glued .04mm birch wood which I had for a smooth finish. Instead it made it very robust.
All cutting of material was done on a mat but glueing was done on plate glass using clamps. My main concern was warping of the the wood and cardboard. So far so good. The model is loosely based on the Barsi Light rail of India in HOe.
Progress has been slow. I'm at the stage of making small "L" shaped fasteners that have to be inserted along the length of the frame just under the decking. 10 on each side. They are made from an old guitar unwound "G" string (no pun intended) giving a diameter of .04mm. I'm using what I have on hand. I now have to make the two ends of the wagon. This is where I am stuck as they are semi-circles reinforced on the outside. The only dimensions  I had to work with was length of frame and width, with a old fuzzy picture. The rest is all guess work.
If you are interested I can post a couple of pictures as it sits right now.

Robin.

[engerth399]

Why not try makng up the frames using brass "L" shape girders, these are availabi in quite small sizes.  Other pieces of resin or plastic can be glued on.  I only have 4 wheel flats and as they are on Worsley works underframes I have not experienced this problem.

[Graeme Dunbar]

It sounds like it is a prototypical problem and where kingposts, queenposts, truss rods and all that paraphernalia come in! Also the position of the bogies plays a part. I understand coaches can suffer the opposite, 'hogging', if the bogies are too near the centre and weight of the body is on the coach ends.

In this instance if discreet reinforcement cannot be made underneath then how about considering a permanently attached load such as girders, large pipe etc. that will serve the purpose?

[B.Meldon]

It is easy to make flat wagons that do not distort.
Just make the floor from tin sheet and add old rail as frames.

Here is an example of a very simple bogie cane wagon. I built quite a few of these in the early 1990's for a Philippines sugar layout that never got finished.
As I needed lots of these they had to be simple, and cheap to make. Back then the Roco wagons that are used as bogies were £1 each from the 009 Society sales stand. The floor and ends are tin sheet from biscuit tins the outside framing under the floor, and the supports for the ends are sections of old 00 rail. The upright poles are steel wire. The paint finish is from a Halfords satin black spray can. The second photo is one of the loaded wagons. (The retaining wire is a bit of black cotton and the cane is plumber's hemp.) These have just sat loose piled up in a box in a draw for aver 25 years and are still as straight as the day I made them.
Obviously extra detail could always be added to your needs, but these give you the idea.

The tin sheet can be cut with scissors, it is light weight, it is easy to bend into shape, (and bend back several times if you get it wrong) it can be filled easily with needle files, it can be glued using super glue or soldered.  It is also a free material! I use it extensively from everything from coach roofs to scratch built loco bodides.

[Robin Webster]

Some times simplicity is the answer. Nice job Brian. Are the bogies still available?
Robin.

[B.Meldon]

Some times simplicity is the answer. Nice job Brian. Are the bogies still available?
Robin.

The bogies are Roco wagons.

Minitrains sell some that are near identical.

The log bolsters are the easiest to use as they already have the piviot hole, but if you are happy to dirll a hole in the central bar then any version will do the job.

New the Minitrains versions are £26 for four:
https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/model-railways/minitrains-brand5/minitrains-mtr5103.html

The roco versions are £17.25 for two:

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/roco-rc34602.html

However you can usualy get them a lot cheeper on e-bay and the 009 Society sales often have some as well for about £3.50 each. (None are listed in the on-line shop.)

Avoid the Egger ones and the very early Roco ones with the matt silver metal wheels as the wheels have poor profiles and may well cause problems.

[David Weber]

Brian, do you mean 'tin sheet' as in the stuff used for tin boxes for tea, biscuits, chocolate selections, etc? I did not realise that could be worked just with scissors! I suppose that being made up into a box gives it the impression of being tougher than it really is.

Certainly metal seems to be the way to go for unsupported/poorly supported flat surfaces. Perhaps tin would also work for a certain loco I've been trying to model that had very large, long shunter's platforms in the form of an extended footplate at each end. Every plastic or card design just curls up.

Graeme, I certainly think that would work too, assuming such a load fits with the kind of traffic being carried. In this case I am looking to produce a set of flat wagons each carrying 3-5 copper ore skips. But the current pair are for timber so permanently fixed logs might work for them.



Timber flat made from Five79 Innisfail coach chassis with leftover Society wagon kit brake gear, demonstrating issues with flatness.

Robin, I would be interested to see your wagon. Making models from wood is fun in larger scales but I have not yet attempted it in H0e.

[B.Meldon]

Brian, do you mean 'tin sheet' as in the stuff used for tin boxes for tea, biscuits, chocolate selections, etc? I did not realise that could be worked just with scissors! I suppose that being made up into a box gives it the impression of being tougher than it really is.

Certainly metal seems to be the way to go for unsupported/poorly supported flat surfaces. Perhaps tin would also work for a certain loco I've been trying to model that had very large, long shunter's platforms in the form of an extended footplate at each end. Every plastic or card design just curls up.

Yes tin sheet from biscuit tins is what I use now. 30+ years ago when I worked in the motor trade I used to use tin from car oil cans, but they are all made of plastic now! Yes it cuts with scissors etc. and is very easy to work with and can be bent and re-bent several times if needed, it far better than brass sheet in that respect. It is however not so good for very thin strips unless these are cut with a guillotine. 

[WALLSHIRTS]

K & S sell tin sheet, so you don't have to cut up old tin cans.
Mal

[Robin Webster]

Hi David, my flat wagon in HOe, made from wood, cardboard, brass wire and  thread. Still some work to be done.

[clayliner]

Quite by  chance, I came across this yesterday:

"...for many applications, coated steel sheet has many virtues which make it a material to be preferred."   - C. J. Freezer, Railway Modeller, April 1970.

Among these virtues he lists cheapness (why buy it when it's all around us?), strength, ease of working and the tin-plating which prevents rusting (as long as it isn't damaged).

David.

[Peter Boulter]

K & S sell tin sheet, so you don't have to cut up old tin cans.
Mal

Sure, but tins of biscuits come with free biscuits inside.

A clear case of a Win-Win situation.  :)