Transporter wagon

Tim Parsonson · January 23, 2021, 07:33

Does anyone know of a RTR wagon that will transport a small SG wagon on 009 track?

Not looking to actually move the wagon on or off, just carry a closed SG wagon of some sort.

Thanks in advance

(Or ideas for a simple kit to mod) :)

engerth399 · January 23, 2021, 08:26

Liliput, at least used to make one, and probably still does. Try looking at the online sales stand to see if they have any.

Hobby · January 23, 2021, 09:08

Yes they may have, though you'll have to wait until they reopen!

A word of caution, though, they are not all that free running and you'll require minimum radii of 12", preferably 15". It may be as easy to build a simple one based on the Leek and Manifold ones and using a pair of small N gauge bogies.

Tim Parsonson · January 23, 2021, 10:12

I found a flat wagon on ebay with N bogies, hopefully will mod to suit.

JulienW · January 23, 2021, 13:38

To look at the real thing for a moment there are essentially 2 ways to move a standard gauge wagon on narrow gauge tracks.

"Rollblocks" are little 2-axle NG bogies that carry an individual axle of the standard gauge wagon. As far as I know the only place this system has been used in in Europe, but from what I've seen of vidios of it in operation seems to be fairly automatic (mounting / demounting can be done by shunting the standard gauge wagons across a ramp with the NG rollblocks running on NG rails laid between the standard gauge ones). I'm sure I've seen RTR versions from the European manufactures but I can't recall any specific details at the moment.

Transporter wagons, usually a narrow gauge bogie wagon that takes a standard gauge 4-wheel wagon or van*, is the other way to do the job, and there was one railway in the UK - the Leek & Manifold - that used these on its short 2' 6" gauge line in the Peak district (though experiments of using one re-gauged to 2' gauge on the Ashover didn't work). As engerth399 metions Liliput to a HOe model, and I suspect that the other European manufactures do them. Coming back to the Leek & Manifold there have been 2 different kits for these - a White Metal bodied one from Center Models, which has been out of production for several decades(!) and a cast resin version of the same kit by Meridian Models which whilst also out of production was produced much more recently.

The thing to remember about the transporter wagons is that the standard gauge rails are set much low down (not much higher than the narrow gauge rails) either side of a central 'spine' where the narrow gauge bogie pivots (and all the associated bit like break gear, etc) are fixed, as if they were simply a 'wide flat wagon with a bit of standard gauge track mounted on the floor' if they were the center of gravity would be so high that the thing would tip over at the first sign of a curve (let alone the much tighter curves found on the average 009 layout).

Hope that helps...

(*The Leek & Manifold had some of its transporter wagons lengthened to take 6-wheel standard gauge milk traffic, and I've seen film of lines in Europe moving a train of standard gauge bogie stock on narrow gauge with a transporter wagon under each bogie...)

Edit: I suspect that someone on Shapeways may well have done a Leek & Manifold transporter wagon - there may even be more than one - so it may be worth a look.

Hobby · January 23, 2021, 14:03

Bemo make the ramp to get a sg wagon on and off the rollbocks (note the spelling Julien, no third L!). It's made from plastic and has two steps on it, the sg wagon is pushed onto it and the rollbocks is situated with the "ears" up and collects the axle and the wheels drop into the ears when the second step is reached. Works well in real life, the JHMD still use them, but a bit if a sod to model working. Transporters are a lot easier to make working in model form.

The NG rails are usually kept level with the rest of the NG track and there is normally a small gradient on the SG siding to raise the rail height.

JulienW · January 23, 2021, 16:07

I've enough trouble spelling correctly in English, let alone various European languages :laugh:

But thanks for the correction as it helps the OP find out what the hell (hel or helll) I'm on about... ;)

Tim Parsonson · January 23, 2021, 16:28

Thanks all, very interesting.
My intention is not to model mounting or dismiunting of the SG wagon, but merely transport it through a part of the layout, simulating a link with a SG junction somewhere off layout and delivering it into a goods shed for loading/offloading (maybe).

Hobby · January 24, 2021, 09:56

http://www.jagsttalbahn-modelle.de/fahrzeuge/rollbock/bemo-rollbock/bemo-rollbock.html

Rather him than me, but shows what's possible if you are mad enough!! This is the drop down section by Bemo, though the ones I've seen in real life tend to have the ground raised along the sides.

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/283107645398_/BEMO-5510-Rollbock-Umsetzanlage-und-8-Rollb%C3%B6cke.jpg

You can see the two "drops" on the SG rail on this Czech one, also you will see that the "ears" are folded down, they are lifted when under the axle. This method would not really be possible in model form, especially in H0e/009:

https://i.imgur.com/SuxmIlb.jpg

Tim Parsonson · January 25, 2021, 07:43

The Bemo ones would be ideal for my purposes as I don't intend to model the system operationally, but they seem to have been discontinued long since and I can't find any on the second hand market so far.

If anyone has a set they don't want please let me know!

Hobby · January 25, 2021, 09:35

Quote from: Tim Parsonson on January 25, 2021, 07:43The Bemo ones would be ideal for my purposes

Sorry, Tim, what "Bemo ones" are you talking about?

Graeme Dunbar · January 25, 2021, 10:30

The ones linked to here (and previously)

http://www.jagsttalbahn-modelle.de/fahrzeuge/rollbock/bemo-rollbock/bemo-rollbock.html

Look very similar to log bolster wagons in concept. If the transporter wagon does not need to be functional in that it is not a requirement to load the SG wagon on to the transporter and take it off again but is permanently fixed then how about 'kit bashing' a pair of skip chassis with a standard gauge wagon body (except the SG wheels etc are still in place)? Effectively it would be a bogie wagon with an oversized body and some redundant wheels.

There are Minitrains (and other) bolster wagons.

http://www.minitrains.eu/mt-freight.html

B.Meldon · January 25, 2021, 12:49

I use the Liliput transporter wagons.
The standard gauge wagons are perminantly fixed in place.
As mentioned by Blair the original inside frame six wheel bogies do not run very well at all. We replaced these with Egger log bolster bogies with the corners filled down and fitted with Roco wheels. These have rounded ends so can swing more then the later Roco ones, but even then the wheel flanges had to be removed from the SG wagons to give enough swing.
We also attached coupling extensions to these bogies.
We use these vehicles along with all the others on the layout, that has 12 inch points and 18 inch reverse curves and includes extensive shuntting etc. But the1:35 grade limits their use to only one in every up hill train and obvioulsy all the clearances have to be made big enough.

B.Meldon · January 25, 2021, 12:56

As can be seen in the previous photo I do have a sunken transfer siding, but it is just for show.

In addition the van we used is a bit of a cheat as it has a lower roof than normal, but it looks ok as it is vertualy never next to a full height standard gauge wagon and once it is out of the transfer siding the height of the transporter wagon makes it look the same height! You can see it is lower than the SG loco in this photo, but i doubt you would have noticed unless I had pointed it out. The other sg wagon is an open wagon. I only have the two transporters.

Hobby · January 25, 2021, 13:37

Quote from: GraemeD on January 25, 2021, 10:30Look very similar to log bolster wagons in concept. If the transporter wagon does not need to be functional in that it is not a requirement to load the SG wagon on to the transporter and take it off again but is permanently fixed then how about 'kit bashing' a pair of skip chassis with a standard gauge wagon body (except the SG wheels etc are still in place)? Effectively it would be a bogie wagon with an oversized body and some redundant wheels.

They might work, but bear in mind they are pretty small in rail life. My Bemo ones are 14mm wheelbase with 5mm diameter wheels.

I wasn't sure whether he meant the Bemo SG/NG drop down section, hence my question!

The Czech line I model uses ones with outside frames which may be an alternative, dimensions may be about the same: