Handrails

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Does anybody know where I could buy components for hand rails like these on a GWR Toad please?

I have found some for Locos but the fittings are 1mm diameter which I think would look wrong in this context.

Or do I just use brass rod and solder it?

Thanks

Stephen

[B.Meldon]

If you want tiny handrail knobs then you need to use 2mm scale ones.
For example nbrass sell a pack of 12 for £2.70, these use .25mm wire handrail, that they also sell. Here is a link:

https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/fitall.html#WIRE

However these are tiny and quite dificult to work with. I just use the 00 scale ones that are perhaps a little too large.

Other makes are available. (I think?)

[Stephen Rainsbury]

If you want tiny handrail knobs then you need to use 2mm scale ones.

Thanks I will look at them, but good to know they are fiddly. In that vase maybe back to plan A  which is I have some .7mm rod and make  a very short sleeve from heatshrink sleeve to represent the brackets. 
Stephen 

[Graeme Dunbar]

An old-fashioned approach is to take some thin wire (they always seemed to say fuse wire, if you can still get it), wrap around the handrail and twist the ends together. A thin card spacer is used distance the handrail away from the body  and the twisted end soldered or glued from the inside.

I suppose if one was really keen (or masochistic) one could file or scrape wire to a half round shape, wrap around the handrail and pinch to make a tiny cotter pin.

That's not actually too difficult, if fiddly. The hard part is making them sufficiently similar in appearance and in sufficient quantitiy, or having the patience to make lots and lots of them and select ones that look similar enough for use on individual locos.

I think if was to try it again I might solder the wire like a link in Veroboard to hold it taught and stop it rolling. The trick is to draw-file the wire and not file across. I might give it another go sometime and try to make enough for a loco. I used a Boots diamond file (sold for filing feet - one of my best bargains when they were on offer years back and a favourite file) and the back of a scalpel blade for scraping.

Jewelry suppliers sell half-round wire, but I've not seen it thin enough.

[Stephen Rainsbury]

An old-fashioned approach is to take some thin wire (they always seemed to say fuse wire, if you can still get it), wrap around the handrail and twist the ends together. A thin card spacer is used distance the handrail away from the body  and the twisted end soldered or glued from the inside.

Thanks that sounds like a plan. I have some thin brass rod to make the actual hand rails so need to make a width jig to bend each end round. I could trim some cores out of some 7 core wire for the brackets which like you say could be soldered on using a plain veroboard template. If I painted that with primer filler before fixing I reckon it would look OK .     

Thanks that's plan C and I like it. I just need to get the awful plastic ribs trimmed down now.

[Graeme Dunbar]

I make couple to remind myself what I did. The mistake I made this time was bending the handrail-knob-wire round the handrail-wire itself without supporting the handrail-knob-wire at the apex so the bend looked like a V rather than a U, i.e. it kinked rather wrapped around, so that when I clinched the ends together round the handrail to make a keyhole-shaped or Omega-shape cotter pin the wrap around the handrail looked like () rather than O.

I just used some single-strand electronics hookup wire and possibly the copper work-hardened too and I should have annealed it before bending.

I've just found my source on my bookshelf -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Miniature-Locomotive-Construction-John-Ahern/dp/0853440751

Though my copy is older than me! I can't remember where and when got it.

[Stephen Rainsbury]

I've just found my source on my bookshelf -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Miniature-Locomotive-Construction-John-Ahern/dp/0853440751

Thanks for this Graeme, I am going to experiment with this in a minute.

That book looks interesting and has good reviews, I may well buy that next time I place an Amazon order :-)

Stephen

[JulienW]

I just reading a 1948 edition of Ahren's book at the moment...

Coming back to handrails I tend to use 0.3 mm wire, and as this scales to (as near as dammit) 1" diameter full size. I've not tried using thinner flexible wire (fuse wire or something stripped from electrical flex) having picked up a selection of handrail knobs over the years (including some designed for N / 2mm scale, but I wonder if the fine wire approach will give enough strength to support the handrails.

As a suggestion - and I've not tried this - I wonder if using the thin flexible wire as a long U shape slipped over the handrail and then tightened into position by twisting the 2 ends together would wor. This would pull the fine wire tight to the handrail and also produce a thicker 'shank' to support the handrails, especially if a little solder was run into the twist to reinforce it (and hold it in place on the handrail).

[Stephen Rainsbury]

I make couple to remind myself what I did. The mistake I made this time was bending the handrail-knob-wire round the handrail-wire itself without supporting the handrail-knob-wire at the apex so the bend looked like a V rather than a U, i.e. it kinked rather wrapped around, so that when I clinched the ends together round the handrail to make a keyhole-shaped or Omega-shape cotter pin the wrap around the handrail looked like () rather than O.

I just tried some 0.25mm insulated copper wire around a length of paperclip. It was fiddly at first but found that wrapping it a few times round a nail helped no end. I didn't exactly grip tight but lit looks about right and being slightly loose means that it will be able to accommodate any slight inaccuracies in my drilling.

I am starring to wonder if I should assemble it, dry fit it to get the holes lined up, put a spot of superglue on the handle to keep it in place then paint it before fixing it permanently in place.

Stephen

PS I bough that book. At that price it seemed rude not to :-)

[Stephen Rainsbury]

As a suggestion - and I've not tried this - I wonder if using the thin flexible wire as a long U shape slipped over the handrail and then tightened into position by twisting the 2 ends together would wor. This would pull the fine wire tight to the handrail and also produce a thicker 'shank' to support the handrails, especially if a little solder was run into the twist to reinforce it (and hold it in place on the handrail).

Ahh that's what I thought Graeme was suggesting and yes it works quite well. I want to dry fit it in the plastic and then fix the position of the support so it will have to be superglue and soldering would melt the body, and I couldn't solder it afterwards as that releases cyanide gas!  If I dry fit it  can then remove it and prime it with primer/filler which should disguise the supports even more :-)

Thanks Julien :)

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Ahh now there is interesting..  I am not sure that I like this as much as the original, but this is how it was done in the final batch. The pipe was 1 3/32" gas pipe which is 0.37mm in 00 scale.  I think that would have to be a bit thicker in practice.

[JulienW]

<snipped> The pipe was 1 3/32" gas pipe which is 0.37mm in 00 scale.  I think that would have to be a bit thicker in practice.

Assuming you want white handrails you'll need to add a layer of paint to whatever wire you end up using. I'd therefore suggest that you don't want to go too thick otherwise you risk having the handrails overpowering the van, especially if they are going to be white (or a similar bright colour) on a dark grey background.

Using 0.3 mm wire may sound like it would not be strong enough but unless you are really ham-fisted it should be OK as most of the stuff I've seen on sale (that comes in packs of so meny lengths of straight wire) is fairly stiff, and you can make the wire harder (rolling the straight lengths between two metal plates should not alter the diameter but will harden the wire, as will using a steel bunishing tool) to withstand reasonable handling. At a push you could go up to 0.45mm wire, but I'd have though by the time you get to 0.7mm with a layer of paint the result will be more like (3") drainpipe than 1" gas pipe!

For the stantions as shown in the latest photos you could use fine brass or plastic angle.  I know that 1 x 1 mm brass angle is available from the likes of Eileen's Emporium but you may be hard-pressed to get plastic as fine as that (the main issue for me is not the overall size but the thickness of the flanges).

The other thought looking at the set up on the final batch would be to use a combination of the finest plastic angle section you can get to make the stantions at the corners which are then drilled to take  fine plastic rod - I'd suggest a maximum of 20 thou (0.6mm), though you can make this sort of rod by heating and streching the sprues from a plastic kit over a candle flame (an old trick used by the aircraft modellers to make fine rod to make wire radio areials from) - and the whole thing assembled using solvent. The drawback might be that it will break rather than bend, but it may be easier to repair with a dab of solvent weld.

Hope that helps...

[Stephen Rainsbury]

.. you can make the wire harder (rolling the straight lengths between two metal plates should not alter the diameter but will harden the wire, as will using a steel bunishing tool) to withstand reasonable handling. At a push you could go up to 0.45mm wire, but I'd have though by the time you get to 0.7mm with a layer of paint the result will be more like (3") drainpipe than 1" gas pipe!

A quick rummage in the "Building Materials" box found some 0.5mm brass rod*, would that need burnishing?  If so could I do that at home with basic tools?

For the stantions as shown in the latest photos you could use fine brass or plastic angle.  I know that 1 x 1 mm brass angle is available from the likes of Eileen's Emporium but you may be hard-pressed to get plastic as fine as that (the main issue for me is not the overall size but the thickness of the flanges).

I have both brass and plastic 1mm angle strips* :-)

The other thought looking at the set up on the final batch would be to use a combination of the finest plastic angle section you can get to make the stantions at the corners which are then drilled to take  fine plastic rod

Thanks that is all very useful indeed. I think I marginally prefer the look of the early ones so I think I am going to carry on with both for now and decide which to use as I go along.

The thinnest plastic rod I have is 1.2mm but I think I can get some thing thinner locally so I might look for that. I have tried the heating and pulling method to and you are right it can work, but the results were very brittle and it didn't last very long, so I might just buy some.

*I am not really that well stocked, this was all bought for my Jouef Decauville restoration project, which is currently on hold until I get my test track back and can test it :-)

Thanks Julien your experience here is invaluable :-)

EDIT: I suppose that I could do the whole thing in soldered brass using a veroboard jig and just fit the rails as completed assemblies, but how the heck to I accurately drill the holes in 1mm brass angle? Or would I be better off just doing a butt soldered joint, using another jig to hold the rail in place?

Stephen

[clayliner]

When I need stiff wire for handrails I snip off 'bristles' from a stiff wire brush. (My brush is getting a bit threadbare but I've got some nice handrails!)

David.

[Stephen Rainsbury]

When I need stiff wire for handrails I snip off 'bristles' from a stiff wire brush. (My brush is getting a bit threadbare but I've got some nice handrails!)

Clever. Mine is very manky and probably not ideal, but I like the thinking. I really should be writing this stuff down :-)
Stephen