Standardisation of couplings

[Frank]

As Julien says, height is the key to setting up couplings of the Greenwich and similar design.   

You can buy a height block and it is a good idea if you are not sure of the height to set up to. 

However there is an inexpensive alternative.  If you stick a short length of track down on a block of wood and insert a large wood screw at the end, on the track centre line, you can then adjust this to the correct height by screwing the screw up or down and that will do the job very well.

Frank

[JulienW]

Frank, I've got one of those jigs (well, 2 actually - one 009 and one OOn3).

They work very well for setting all the couplings to the same height, but as you say unless you know what the 'correct' height actually is to set the screw at (ask any ten 009 modellers and get at least 10 different answers) can be a bit of a dead end when it comes to compatibility with another member's stock.

[B.Meldon]

There is no 'standard' height for any 009 coupling.
I use the small Roco and Minitrains four-wheel wagons as a height guide as it is virtually impossible to change the height of these and I use them as bogies with the original couplings in use.
I use the Bemo/Egger couplings that almost all ready to run 009 and H0e have from new with ramps for uncoupling.
However even the ready to run manufactures have different coupling heights, some within their own range!

As has been mentioned height adjustment is critical, you must get this spot on. The coupling loops also need to be horizontal and the couplings should be level and to droop.
Spending time getting them all correct from the start will pay off later.

Brian Meldon

[Dave Cooper]

Thanks for all the advice folks - much food for thought here !

I think I'll invest in a pack of Greenwich, a height gauge plus some magnets and do some experimenting with a loco and a few wagons.

If it doesn't work out it won't break the bank, and, I'll probably learn something...

Will let you know how I get on.
Cheers for now, Dave

[Hugh Norwood]

It depends on where you are of course, but could I suggest you find a local group to visit, or find a local exhibition with a 009 layout in attendance? (or more than one) Get chatting to the layout operators/owners. We're a friendly bunch and are willing to talk about aspects of the hobby. You'll get some good tips!

[Stefan Krebs]

Dear David,

The Greenwich, DG, and B&B are etched versions/ variations on the Bemo/ ROCO/ Liliput coupling, created with the desire to produce something less bulky or with delayed action. Thus, if you dread the (fumbly) making up of the etches, just buy the Bemo (available from Parkside) or ROCO offering; the offering from Technomodell (part no 57623) is somewhat smaller, but harder to get.
If you contemplate 3-link, which is just about as fumbly to just couple in 00, then I'm wondering why you're worried about assembling a Greenwich coupler, that's about level par.    ???

It is a very neat "impression" of widely used couplings in America, but bears no resemblance to most prototype narrow gauge couplers used in the UK or Mainland Europe. I've been using it on my TTe stuff and agree it looks nice but, like the Greenwich coupling it's still a compromise for use this side of the Atlantic. Someone in Europe actually does a miniature version of the coupler widely seen on German and Austrian NG lines, which itself is a variation of a SG coupling but from what I remember they are not cheap and I don't know how good they are in action.

On the continent (mainly Germany and Austria) the hopper type coupling (Trichterkupplung) is dominating on narrow gauge (and trams), for which (more or less) accurate models are available from Hummel (http://www.hustra.de/html/tram-bauteile.html (manual operation), Gloeckner http://www.modellbau-gloeckner.de/edition-schmalspurkupplung/ (automatic operation), Veit https://www.modellbau-veit.de/produkte/zubehoer-h0e/kupplungen/index.php (manual; compatible with Technomodell)), and ROCO (automatic, and compatible with Bemo, Liliput, Eggerbahn, Technomodell). ROCO, as on this coach: https://www.roco.cc/de/product/241547-0-0-0-0-0-0-003-0/products.html; but you need to order that as a spare part.

Second-widely used is the Scharfenberg (Schaku), models of which are available from Hummel (2 versions, manual magnetic and mechanical {the old Heinzl/ Hamo coupling}) and Veit (automatic). Good pictures can be found here: https://www.elriwa.de/produkte/ersatzteile/kupplungen/spur-h0e/?p=2; where you find prices and parts numbers too.

Note that compatibilities are limited, with the ROCO the most widely compatible, followed by Bemo, Liliput, Greenwich, B&B, and DG as the most widely used.

Just to spice things up, I enclose the picture of an IMOTEC Schaku, sadly not available anymore; this made 2-pole electrical connection too. Size-wise the Veit is quite close; and yes, that's the tip of a Biro for size comparison! Left with close-coupling kinematic, right without.   :laugh:

Hope this helps
Waldschrat

[Mac Strong]

Here is another one to consider  

https://tramfabriek.nl/couplings.html
https://tramfabriek.nl/coupling-manual.html

Mac

[Mac Strong]

On my own layout (where I use DG couplings but like the Greenwich they have a lifting loop somwork on the same principle)

Which model/type do you use there seem to be a number of them ?

[Dave Cooper]

It seems that the world is full of couplings ! Thanks again for all the links, images and prices etc.

Just found out that a nearby town has a model railway club. Don't know if they do 009, but, probably worth a visit anyway. The "Branchlines" groups are all a bit too distant...

There is a large(ish) MR exhibition coming up in Bristol soon, so, may find a suitable layout or two there.

Regards,
Dave

[Hobby]

I think it's worth re-iterating that in the UK the vast majority of OO9/HOe layouts use the Bemo/Greenwich style coupling, so most of the stock you will buy will have one of those types, and then ask yourself whether it's worth re-inventing the wheel!

[Dave Cooper]

Thanks Hobby. I'll certainly try a pack of "Greenwich" (or, similar) as a 'starter-for-ten' (no pun).

I'm quite happy to leave 'the wheel' as it is ! The 3-link idea was really a "I wonder if " thing, but, having looked at what the dimensions would need to be...etc
Dave

[Stefan Krebs]

I fully agree with Hobby, and after I couldn't find the standard for the Bemo coupling, which is derived and the same as Liliput H0e and Eggerbahn, in the NEM, I eventually remembered where the dimensions are: in the Fremo standards, seehttps://www.fremo-net.eu/index.php?eID=tx_securedownloads&u=0&g=0&t=1556453792&hash=fd57025b603504f7eda6cb430058908949fbadeb&file=fileadmin/redaktion/H0e-Norm/H0e-Norm.pdf
Don't forget that the other dimensions have to be taken quit-pro-quo from the NEM!

With regards to interoperability and compatibility there is more to consider than just the coupling, wheel sets being the next most important thing. Following the Fremo standard ensures the widest possible compatibility, even if you don't build modules. Quite a lot of H0e/ OO9 models are build for a minimum radius of 360mm, for example. If you struggle reading the document, give me a shout, err, pardon my French, PM.

I enclose the drawings for coupler and wheel sets.

Cheers
Walfschrat

[JulienW]

Here is another one to consider  

https://tramfabriek.nl/couplings.html
https://tramfabriek.nl/coupling-manual.html

Mac

A variation on the Greenwich (same 'business' end)

On my own layout (where I use DG couplings but like the Greenwich they have a lifting loop somwork on the same principle)

Which model/type do you use there seem to be a number of them ?

I use the type D - TT/009 - and type A - 2mm /N - that are essentially the same size but the Type D are etched in thicker metal (I can't recall exactly but I have a feeling the difference is 10 and 12 thou sheet).

[B.Meldon]

I fully agree with Hobby, and after I couldn't find the standard for the Bemo coupling, which is derived and the same as Liliput H0e and Eggerbahn, in the NEM, I eventually remembered where the dimensions are: in the Fremo standards, seehttps://www.fremo-net.eu/index.php?eID=tx_securedownloads&u=0&g=0&t=1556453792&hash=fd57025b603504f7eda6cb430058908949fbadeb&file=fileadmin/redaktion/H0e-Norm/H0e-Norm.pdf
Don't forget that the other dimensions have to be taken quit-pro-quo from the NEM!

I enclose the drawings for coupler and wheel sets.

Cheers
Walfschrat

The problem with the Fremo standard for Bemo/Egger couplings is the + or - 0.3mm tolerance. If you stick to this you can end up with a 0.6mm difference between two couplings, and that is too much to make them work reliably. It would probably be ok on a layout without any shuntting but if you want reliable shuntting as I mentioned before they must be spot on to work reliably.
Also, I will have to measure them again, but I think that couplings on the small Roco four-wheel wagons are not set at Fremo height of 6.5mm to the underside of thje loop, and it is very difficult if not impossible to change these. So, if you stick with the Fremo standard you can not use these small roco wagons, or they will not reliable work with all the other couplings set to the Fremo height. But I will have to measure them again to be sure.

Brian Meldon

[Stefan Krebs]

Dear Brian,

If that is too much, than what tolerance do you work to? Spot on, i.e. exactly the same is impossible. Apart from the fact that nobody (and your name is not nobody!) can build anything without tolerance, just the slack in the axle bearings and the coupling hinge will make for part of this tolerance.

Of course, one way of knowing they are 'spot on' is when the hoops don't rise (as they hit head on), i.e. the couplings have to be slightly different heights to work!    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The Fremohicans shunt like mad, and they meet to operate, not to exhibit! Your statement that there is a problem with their standard is simply wrong, because you're speculating!    ;D


Cheers
Waldschrat