Problem with locos stalling on points with frog juicer

[andy1878]

Thanks to the duff information given by your shop you seem to have got off to a bad start. 009 is a far different beast than outdoor garden railways. A grain of sand outdoors, I guess won't be a problem. It has the potential to wreck havoc on 009.

The SPDT switch method will work (does work) for both analogue and DCC. My micro can do both, (I stick to analogue 'cos I want to). I have a large HO (16.5mm gauge) US outline layout - pure DCC. I am also building a DCC 009 layout. I use SPDT method through out. So I don't get your 'stop gap' comment. The SPDT switch is a simple, universal, long term solution.

You are on the way, theirs lots to learn and enjoy. Plug and play its not.

Andy

PS I endorse all Brian has to say, he posted whilst I was typing.

[Max Winter]

Thanks for the positive comments. I realise I am on a steep learning curve and I suppose I am letting my early frustrations show as I discover things as I go along. And I haven't even got to the DCC bit that I have studiously avoided in the garden to date :)

I only use the term "stop gap" in relation to SPDT switches as they seem clumsy to me at this time compared to other methods that have come to my attention at this scale - I use them along with DPDT switches on my garden layout and stock along with pneumatic point motors and their switchgear. The other half of my "habit" is 15 mm scale 3ft US narrow gauge prototypes. Now, some of those need very "open" track geometry. I took note of recommended minimum radii for some of the stock I might consider at this scale, then added a bit. I'll stay away from 3ft US outline here as there is a different track gauge involved and it seems even easier to go bankrupt in that area  ;)

Track laying I noted very quickly has to be perfect the first time I ran my Heljan L&B Manning Wardle. It periodically sat there spinning its wheels and it immediately occured to me that the track was "dipping" on the cork base where a little too much pressure had been applied at the track pinning stage. Like its bigger 16 mm scale sibling the Manning Wardle has a relatively long w/b with quite a distance between the buffer beams and the drivers. Hence it's proved very sensitive to having a level track with no gauging issues and generous curves so it does not get stuck or pull its trailing stock off the rails. The same problems can be encountered in the larger scale with this loco too, although with thumping code 332 rail the track laying can be little more laissez faire. The Baldwin though is a much more forgiving beast. I'll learn. Again thanks for all the suggestions.

[Hobby]

You mention that your garden railway uses point motors and a switch incorporated with that. I use Peco points and also use their motors, situated under the point, that way you can also use their microswitch which attaches to the bottom of the point motor. That does what that juicer does in DCC, switches the frog polarity. I have to be honest that I've never messed around under the points, cutting wiring, but having said that I don't use DCC and I think the instructions for DCC use says you have to?

Brian's method, and one I also use from time to time is some sort of point lever (wire in the tube or similar) with a SPDT switch mounted between the lever and the point, there are many variations of this method and often the best one to use can vary dependant on the location of the point. You can do a separate SPDT switch not linked to anything but then you have to remember to switch both the point and the polarity switch, it's much better to link the two so you don't forget!

I've just finished wiring in my Peco Microswitches (all 4 of them) and after a false start they are all now working ok. The point motors are worked by a centre off sprung switch, though you can also use the electric pencil method or Peco's own point switches!

Get yourself back to that shop for a refund!! ;)

So much to learn, eh!


Regarding the Heljan MW, they seem notorious for temperamental pickups, more so than any other OO9 or HOe loco that I know. It is worth looking at the MW thread on RMWeb and joining NGRM-Online to look at the thread on there. There are many tips to get it working OK, even on less than perfect track. Sitting their with its wheels spinning could be poorly laid track but from what I remember it could also be an issue with the pony wheels lifting the drivers off the track due to the pony truck set-up. Perhaps not the best loco to start OO9-ing with...

[Max Winter]

Problem resolved. DCC80's returned and refunded - shop owner agreed, without any prompting, both he and the rep had given me the wrong info. SPDT switches installed and locos sailing through the points both routes.

Problems with Heljan L&B loco probably down to my track laying. the loco spins its wheels in the same places each circuit. Track pins in couple of places driven in too hard, depressing the track ever so slightly into the cork. A couple of joins on curves probably causing the rails to slightly go out of gauge and pinch at that point. Proving a fiddly to correct but 10 thou packing under the sleepers is showing some benefit on the straights.

A little attention to both the vertical and lateral riding characteristics might help with getting better adhesion - a problem even in the larger scales, an 0-4-0 will always cope with gradients and load better than a 2-4-2. The loco has a fairly long wheelbase which is probably why it is a little sensitive to how the track is laid and the maintenance of an even track curvature. Live and learn.

[Hobby]

A little attention to both the vertical and lateral riding characteristics might help with getting better adhesion - a problem even in the larger scales, an 0-4-0 will always cope with gradients and load better than a 2-4-2. The loco has a fairly long wheelbase which is probably why it is a little sensitive to how the track is laid and the maintenance of an even track curvature. Live and learn.

Which is roughly what's been said on those other forums I told you about, they also have notes on what has been done to make them run better by people who have already done the experimentation! ;)