Can anyone help identify this loco?

[Neil McGrath]

I recently picked up this little loco at the Expo NG exhibition in Swanley. Can anyone help identify it?

[MickT]

It's an Eggerbahn Western loco, without the tender that it originally came with.

It is very similar to the common blue Egger no.5 but has a cab rear with two tall narrow windows and a central larger one with a representation of a door. whilst the Blue  "European" loco has two square spectacles and a central lamp moulding. At the front the loco has a large USA style headlight, a conical smokebox door and a large cowcatcher, which is missing on your model.

The correct chimney for the Western loco is a tall brass conical one, rather like a very narrow 19th century American wood burner. The chimney on yours is from the European blue loco with a rather crude attempt to thicken the chimney stem below the washstand type Germanic spark arrestor.

In other words, you have a bit of a mongrel hybrid, but that shouldn't detract from the potential of it. If it runs OK, then it can go straight into service if you are content with how it looks, or you could fairly easily Anglicise it with a British style chimney (I once made an early one look more Anglo-acceptable simply by replacing the chimney with a length of ball point pen tubing painted black and losing the headlight)

Mick

[Hobby]

Blimey! MickT's morphing into a BrianM!! :)

[B.Meldon]

I will add a little more.

There is a fault in the plastic moulding in the section under the boiler.
This and the large open frame motor dates the loco to the Jouef production run from 1968 to 1971.
As well as the tender the cow catcher is also missing and the chimney has been turned to change its profile.

There was a full article about this model in the May 2014 009 News.

See about half way down this web page:

http://www.egger-bahn.nl/egger%20009%20soc%2050%20jaar.html

Brian Meldon

[JulienW]

The other thought is that it's a bit of a mongrel, i.e. parts from several locos including the green moulding from a Western loco...

(I've probably got something similar in the stock boxes where I've combined 2 or 3 duffers to get one decent running loco).

[MickT]

Blimey! MickT's morphing into a BrianM!! :)

Not quite Blair as Brian has diplomatically corrected several of the stark errors I made in my own assessment! Thanks Brian, particularly regarding the chimney - quite obvious after you'd mentioned it that I was way out in assuming that it started off as the European wash stand spark arrestor chimney, but is actually a rather strangely turned down original.

As Julien pointed out, this loco looks as if it is a mongrel mix of a couple of Egger types - but that should not put Neil off, after all they were all originally produced as "fun" locos and there are more mongrels, bashes (most of them seem to be quite crude, including my own!) and bashed about time-expired ones about than there are pristine as manufactured examples, which I expect are nearly all in Ruud Wittekoek and Brian's own museum collections!

Thanks for the link Brian, I am familiar with Ruud's website but haven't visited it for some time, and this is the first time I was aware of all your Egger 009 News articles being available for those who missed it first time around to see! (Why or why are we still waiting after all these years of being told that it is on the way, for the pdf online back issues of 009 News, just like you can get from 7mm NGA and NGRS and have done for quite a while now if you are members) Whoops, thread drift rant being generated here...........

Mick

[Neil McGrath]

Thanks for all the information guys. This loco wll only be run for fun, so I am not overly bothered by scale accuracy. It runs OK ands so it is now just waiting for me to finish off my 009 layout. I must admit that I was only expecting a two line response to my query but the level of detail in the responses was amazing.

[Hobby]

I am not overly bothered by scale accuracy.

That's lucky... Any resemblance to a prototype loco is purely accidental (as they say - sort of - in films!) ;)

[MickT]

I must admit that I was only expecting a two line response to my query but the level of detail in the responses was amazing.

Well at least you know the provenance of the little loco that you have now Neil! If it runs OK, then cherish it, it is probably quite a rare one as most of them don't!

Enjoy! See if you can find a partner for it next time you visit the Society sales!!

Mick

[B.Meldon]

Just to clarify
All parts of this loco started as a Jouef (1968-1971) made Western loco.
The green cab is obvious, but the black boiler section has the extended smoke box door and the large headlamp that were only on the western locos.

It is just a modified western without its tender, it has no parts from a blue No5 loco or any other Egger locos.

The Jouef versions of these locos are quite common, and despite only about 1 in 5 working well when new example that work ok today are still very common.

The earlier versions with the minitrix motor, gold 'EB' on the tank side, larger bell and separate couplings are less common. (Ones with black plastic rods or grey boiler sections even more so.)
They also did a version with metal rods that were fitted with either the minitrix motor chassis or with the Marx microperm chassis, the microperm type only sold in the US in Minitrains packaging.

Basically, what I am saying is there is no rarity value in this particular version of the Western loco, even if it works well.

Also, be warned it will wear out quite quickly with use.

Brian Meldon

[JulienW]

Thanks Brian.

[Stefan Krebs]

Please, Please, can I chip in with a bit of prototype information? ;D

The engine is miles out, and it is not; - just pick your prototype.

When Eggerbahn started to get tight financially, they were looking for an investor. That came in the form of Constantin Films, who at the time were making a mint with the 'Winnetou' - films (based on the novels of Karl May); EVERY German child read them, and watched the films (with a VERY young Terence Hill working his way to fame in a minor role as a bandit). These films were produced in Yugoslavia, and in at least one featured trains (the engine crashing into and collapsing the pub, pardon my French, the saloon of course). The engine actor from the Yugoslavian state railway was an antique Austrian K. u K. 0-6-0 with an 2-axle tender, standard gauge of course, but repainted in green. Pictures of that engine exist from the 1980ties, still in its 'war' paint from the films made 20 odd years earlier.
Constantin Films got Eggerbahn to produce the Wild West train as a merchandise, to capitalise on the 'Wild West' craze that swept through at least all the German-speaking countries and France; probably part of the deal. Jouef made their H0 version of the train, called 'Far-West', Kibri a whole frontier town, and Preiser produced figures of the key personalities (Winnetou, the Apache chieftain - Pierre Brice; his father Intschu Tschuna - Mavid Popovic ; his sister Ntscho-tschi - Marie Versini; their council Klekih-petra - Hrvoje Svob; his blood brother Old Shatterhand - Lex Baker; and their nemesis, the bandit Santer - Mario Adorf, and his companions). These were available in the classic sets of 6 figures; and miraculously have reappeared as single (premium) figures in the last couple of years; - coincidentally with a 'Winnetou revival' in Germany (if you believe in coincident, that is). :laugh:
However, both Germanys, i.e. GDR (Rathen in Saxony) and FRG (Bad Segeberg in Schleswig-Holstein; Elspe in Northrhein-Westfalia), have their 'Karl May' towns, with annual festivals and enactments on open air stages; and the FRG stage in Elspe has a 780mm steam train, an 0-4-0 steam engine vaguely similar to the Minitrains 'Boehler'. That's as close as you get with prototypical, noting that the Eggerbahn is the older of the two, i.e. the prototype for its stage actor. ;D

I hope I'm not telling you some old hat you already know. ??? :laugh:

May Manitou be with you, - hugh, I have spoken!
Waldschrat

[Hobby]

If you can get hold of them, L, the News carries a history of Egger and their locos written by Brian Meldon (see previous but one poster), the Narrow Gauge Railway Modelling (NGRM) forum also has a similar history, also by Brian and both well worth a read. He's now moved on to Joeff as you will have seen in the latest edition!

I was aware of the information you have given, but the fact remains that it is, in effect, a freelance loco.

[danny]

Please, Please, can I chip in with a bit of prototype information? ;D

The engine is miles out, and it is not; - just pick your prototype.

When Eggerbahn started to get tight financially, they were looking for an investor. That came in the form of Konstantin films, who at the time were making a mint with the 'Winnetou' - films (based on the novels of Karl May); EVERY German child read them, and watched the films (with a VERY young Terence Hill working his way to fame in a minor role as a bandit). These films were produced in Yugoslavia, and in at least one featured trains (the engine crashing into and collapsing the pub, pardon my French, the saloon of course). The engine actor from the Yugoslavian state railway was an antique Austrian K. u K. 0-6-0 with an 2-axle tender, standard gauge of course, but repainted in green. Pictures of that engine exist from the 1980ties, still in its 'warbonnet' paint from the films made 20 odd years earlier.
Konstantin films got Eggerbahn to produce the Wild West train as a merchandise, to capitalise on the 'Wild West' craze that swept through at least all the German-speaking countries and France; probably part of deal. Jouef made their H0 version of the train, called 'Far-West', Kibri a whole frontier town, and Preiser produced figures of the key personalities (Winnetou, the Apache chieftain - Pierre Brice; his father Intschu Tschuna - Mavid Popovic ; his sister Ntscho-tschi - Marie Versini; their council Klekih-petra - Hrvoje Svob; his blood brother Old Shatterhand - Lex Baker; and their nemesis, the bandit Santer - Mario Adorf, and his companions). These were available in the classic sets of 6 figures; and miraculously have reappeared as single (premium) figures in the last couple of years; - coincidentally with a 'Winnetou revival' in Germany  (if you believe in coincident, that is). :laugh:
However, both Germanys, i.e. GDR and FRG, had their 'Karl May' towns ever since, with annual festivals and enactments on open air stages; and the FRG stage in Bad Segeberg has a 600mm steam train, an 0-4-0 steam engine vaguely similar to the Minitrains 'Boehler'. That's as close as you get with prototypical, noting that the Eggerbahn is the older of the two, i.e. the prototype for its stage actor. ;D

I hope I'm not telling you some old hat you already know. ??? :laugh:

May Manitou be with you, - hugh, I have spoken!
Waldschrat

I think this is a similar idea to the Egger Western, but large scale: http://trainslima1-45.forumactif.org/t63-lima-giumbo-ou-jumbo

Just a thought - if you want to replace the chimney they unscrew - could it be directly replaced with one of the more recent Minitrains loco chimneys (there are some more British-looking designs of these and they are sometimes available separately)?

[Stefan Krebs]

Should I have mentioned that I have a gaggle of tenders lying around, and I might be able to part with one, if you need one? ;)

Oh, and thanks for the link, which shows us the Italians are better at counting: their toastrack coach has the correct number of compartments, unlike Jouef's which is one short of the number the Decauville had. ;D

Cheers
Waldschrat