009-GROUP on Yahoo.

[JulienW]

Those of you who follow some of the topics further down this forum may have seen my notification about the future of the 009 group that I manage on Yahoo.

This was at one time the 'official' 009 Society group but was replaced by this forum in 2008, at which time the group on Yahoo continued to run but without any official support from the 009 Society.

Since then there has been very little traffic on it and more recently - the last 4 years - the number of messages per month has been in single figures and often the only message for several consecutive months has been the monthly reminder of the group's rules which is sent out automatically.

A month ago I put the future of the Yahoo group to it's members as a poll.  I have just had the results and have posted the following as a special notification (so that alll memebrs should get it), but just in case I am also posting it here in full:

Hello Everyone.

I've just had the results of the poll.

12 out of 126 members voted (9.5% turnout)
100% of those who voted were in favour of closing the group.

Therefore, with the unanimous decision by those who chose to vote and the apathy about the group's future from the membership in general I will be deleting this group from Yahoo at some point after August 4th 2016 as the time has come to move on as this group had been superseded but other platforms.

Members are advised that if they would like to have continued access to any files, photographs, etc. to download them before that date.

Finally I would like to thank all of you for your support and contributions over the years.

Very best wishes,
Julien Webb
Moderator, 009-Group.
(ps. this notice will also be posted on the 009 Society's members' forum)

Please note that none of the other 009 related internet content ("official" Society-based ones or any other) will be affected by this action.

Julien Webb
Moderator, 009-Group (Yahoo)

[MickT]

Bit of a close result there then. Should there be another run of this referendum, sorry poll, so that anyone of the 114 who did not vote can have a second opportunity to express a desire to REMAIN should they be so inclined?............................

Mick

PS - breaking news from the Luddite Society, protest meeting being planned this afternoon outside the 009 Society Ltd's Chairman's Presidential Palace. Bring your own placards, redundant "Remain" armbands salvaged from the Holyrood House skip will be issued free of charge.

PPS: I voted, I am one of the 12 who did!

[B.Meldon]

I can not remember the last time I logged onto Yahoo!

RIP to the Yahoo 009-GROUP.

Brian Meldon

[Graeme Dunbar]

I can not remember the last time I logged onto Yahoo!

RIP to the Yahoo 009-GROUP.

Brian Meldon

You beat me to it! I have a nagging feeling there is a photograph on it that was meaning to download, but I can't remember what it was or what my Yahoo login details are.

[Andrew Emery]

I can not remember the last time I logged onto Yahoo!

RIP to the Yahoo 009-GROUP.

Brian Meldon

Don't worry, there will probably be a 009 Society Linkedin page by tomorrow...

[Hugh Norwood]

... I have a nagging feeling there is a photograph on it that was meaning to download, but I can't remember what it was or what my Yahoo login details are.

If I recall correctly, the 009 group did not support attachments and so you couldn't pass pictures around.

[duttonbay]

... I have a nagging feeling there is a photograph on it that was meaning to download, but I can't remember what it was or what my Yahoo login details are.

If I recall correctly, the 009 group did not support attachments and so you couldn't pass pictures around.

True, but you could store photos in the group, and also save files. There are 420 photos and a number of files on the group's home page at Yahoo. There's an interesting looking spreadsheet listing all drawings in the OO9 (sic) News.

[Andrew Emery]

... I have a nagging feeling there is a photograph on it that was meaning to download, but I can't remember what it was or what my Yahoo login details are.

If I recall correctly, the 009 group did not support attachments and so you couldn't pass pictures around.

True, but you could store photos in the group, and also save files. There are 420 photos and a number of files on the group's home page at Yahoo. There's an interesting looking spreadsheet listing all drawings in the OO9 (sic) News.

Let me address the Elephant in the room;
1. From what I read above, the Yahoo site sounds useful. Why then is it being closed?
2. Why did members such as myself not know it existed? We might have used it.
3. Why were only existing members asked if it should be closed, as opposed to all of us, including members who might have used it if they had known about it?
4. Why does this group exist if there was already a Yahoo group?
5. Where is the dividing line with this new, surprise Facebook page?
6. If the announcements are going on Facebook, why have any in 009 News (more room for 'and thanks to Mildred who made the cakes'...)
7. Am I the only one who gets far more from this Group than from reading 'and Mildred made the cakes' in 009 News?
8. Is there any sort of policy, leadership, direction here?
9. Is it time to scrap the hard-copy of 'Mildred made the cakes' monthly, and just go electronic? It is 2016.

Are those enough Elephants?

[clayliner]

Yes, Andrew - enough to start your own circus (to rival the Moscow State Circus, perhaps?)!

It sounds as though the horse may have bolted already - or maybe you still have the best part of a month to check the bolts on the stable door.

It's good that you get so much from this forum (although maybe not the latest news on Mildred) and while groups may be A Good Thing perhaps you can have too much (of A Good Thing). I would personally encourage Society members to invest as much as they can in this group and not spread things too thinly.

Is it really 2016 already? While I have heard of pdfs, and may have even seen one occasionally, there's nothing I like more than settling down with a pot of coffee and the latest 009 News. But it seems that an electronic version is on the way for those so inclined.

As for the distinction between this forum and Facebook (which I have also heard of, I promise you) I think we will have to see how that works out, but we have been told that FB will mainly be used for publicity and announcements and that all the really interesting stuff will stay here. I for one really hope so.

David.

[Alan Feldon]

Andrew
Julien had previously written about the lack of use on the yahoo group so I think it was up to the members if they wanted to continue or not.There is this forum and NGRM on line so how many forums do you want?If you have too many how much time does that leave for actual modelling?
Like you I have to rely very much on the internet for communication,and as an overseas member, receive the 009 news online which suits me fine.
it was my choice to live abroad but that does not mean that I don't miss going to shows and meeting people,so the news and the internet keep me in touch.
The question of too much bumpf in branch reports has been discussed in the past without appearing to come to a conclusion.
Alan (from a very rural Greece)

[Graeme Dunbar]

Oh dear. When I said there might be a photograph on the Yahoo group somewhere I was meaning to download I thought it was sufficiently implied that it was not worth the bother of downloading when the group was active. It might not even have been on the 009 Society Yahoo group but on the Narrow Gauge Online Yahoo Group that has gone a similar way -  if it still exists at all. It may have closed years ago.  If was able to find the photo, it is probably very small and jaggy and it will take up space on my hard drive and I'll never look at it again. The photo might have been a comparison of coupler types or commercial track types.

Things have moved on.

I would definitely not advocate going back to the Yahoo group. If I recall correctly, images (if the moderator permitted them as attachments) were not archived and people complained about others not deleting previous text when replying to a message because it took so long to download on a dial-up modem. It was a pain trying to find an image or file that was referred to in a post because it was stored in a generally unstructured separate file area. Some groups tried contrived means of labelling posts with keywords in the title to make up for the lack of threads.

If anyone is really concerned then I understand there is free Yahoo Group download software and the group could be preserved on a USB thumb drive for the Society archive.

Edit: I've just remembered (I think) - there were threads, but some replies broke the thread and started a new one and there were problems of thread proliferation when people replied to different posts going back along the thread.

[JulienW]

Let me address the Elephant in the room;
1. From what I read above, the Yahoo site sounds useful. Why then is it being closed?
2. Why did members such as myself not know it existed? We might have used it.
3. Why were only existing members asked if it should be closed, as opposed to all of us, including members who might have used it if they had known about it?
4. Why does this group exist if there was already a Yahoo group?
5. Where is the dividing line with this new, surprise Facebook page?
6. If the announcements are going on Facebook, why have any in 009 News (more room for 'and thanks to Mildred who made the cakes'...)
7. Am I the only one who gets far more from this Group than from reading 'and Mildred made the cakes' in 009 News?
8. Is there any sort of policy, leadership, direction here?
9. Is it time to scrap the hard-copy of 'Mildred made the cakes' monthly, and just go electronic? It is 2016.

Are those enough Elephants?

1.  It was not being used by its 126 members. As outlined in the messages I sent out to those 126 members (and copied on here) for the past 4 years the number of messages generated by those 126 members was less than 10 per month, and often the ONLY message was the one reminding members of the rules for using the group. This lack of traffic suggests that it is no longer a useful resource if its members do not make use of it - illustrated when less than 10% of it's members decided to vote on their group's future.

2. It has not been an "official", i.e. 009 Society sponsored group since 2008 (again, as stated  by me on this forum), and other resources, such as this forum you are currently using to view this message DO have 'official' society backing.

3. The "009-GROUP" on yahoo has not been an official 009 Society group since 2008. Had it not been for my own efforts the group would have been deleted then.  As such it became independent of the 009 Society, so why should the 009 Society membership have any say in what an independent group on Yahoo decide to do?

4. The "009-GROUP" on yahoo replaced the old 009-Society group on Yahoo when the 009 Society committee took the decision to no longer support the group due to issues with what was being posted by some members. If by "this group" you mean this forum, then I believe it was because the Society members had requested it and felt it would be easier to manage than a Yahoo group.

5. No idea - I have nothing to do with Face-ache sorry Facebook and no desire to do so.

6. See comment 5.  Not everyone is wedded to their computer screens, especially if like me they find it gets in the was of building models and layouts.

7. Having supplied a fair number of group reports in my time I've often found that if Midlred is thanked for making the cakes and putting up with a group of 009 modellers taking up her sitting room for the evening she is more likely to allow her husband to have his 009 mates around for another group meeting in future (and make some cakes for us!).  Even if she doesn't, surely it's common courtesy to thank your host and hostess...  However I couldn't possibly comment about what you do or don't get out of the internet or the paper copy of 009 News.

8. I'm not sure I understand the question...

9. NO!   As I've said above not everyone is wedded to their screens, and personally I find the paper copy much easier to read, carry about, pass on / give away (very useful in promoting the 009 Society at exhibitions) and easier / cheaper to replace if damaged.  That's not to say that a PDF news should not be an option, but I strongly feel that the electronic option should be offered alongside the paper one and not replace it, if only because that I've found it difficult to read anything electronic in the bath, and it's much easier to dry out a paper magazine compared to a tablet device (and 009 News is cheaper to replace too!).

Finally I'll make a point. There is nothing to stop anyone setting up their own group on Yahoo (or anywhere else for that matter) dedicated to 009/HOe/HOn30 or whatever you want to call it - just don't use the phrase "009 Society" without permission...

[Andrew Emery]

There is this forum and NGRM on line so how many forums do you want?

Agreed Alan. The issue I was hoping to prompt discussion on was that there  is too much division of effort. One website closes, only to find another opens. Today, until the Yahoo site is closed, I believe there are actually three simultaneous sites.

I, like I am sure others, decline to link my Facebook to the 009 Facebook, and since most of the 009 page is therefore blocked-out to me by a half page telling me to link, I fear that I, as others, will miss-out on anything posted there, and not posted on the other (two!) sites, or in 'Mildred's Monthly'.

I agree with what you say - the Society needs to focus on how it wants to proceed. And of course, we need to remember that there are some members who shun the internet completely - but then, they're not reading this, are they...?

Greece? Nice. Only a Bosphorous away. 'It ain't 'alf hot, Mum'. 

Kindest,
Andrew

[JulienW]

<snipped>
The question of too much bumpf in branch reports has been discussed in the past without appearing to come to a conclusion.
Alan (from a very rural Greece)

If I may address that one Alan...

When I was Society Secretary the matter was discussed at committee level. At that time the decision was taken that the editor could use his judgement to edit overly long reports down to 150 words (excluding details of the next couple of meetings), and that those supplying group reports be encouraged to keep to this word limit.

To the best of my knowledge the current editorial team still have that option, so when it comes to the West Mids Group reports I (or whoever has offered to do the report) write one which I e-mail to members. I then edit this down to as near as 150 words as I can (certainly less than 200 words)  and e-mail that to the editors for publication.

[Alan Feldon]

Sorry Julien I perhaps did not make myself clear,i was referring as to who did the catering.(whether she is named Muriel or otherwise)
I quite agree that the person(s) concerned should be thanked but its always been a thorn i.e. a)does she read 009 news or b) do other members care?This was the matter that has been discussed back and forth without being resolved.
I accept entirely that in the past branchlines was limited as to its length
You cannot please everybody re the news.I was not offered a choice as to whether i wanted an electronic news(and i know why it was done),not that I am complaining ,whereas some UK members are complaining that they can't have the same.And yes I now have three non functioning computers that got soggy! ;D
Alan from a very hot Greece!