Cab fittings

[clayliner]

While one doesn't want to be too obsessive about it, down at 009 level, it's nice, where possible, to decorate a cab with a few basic fittings if there's scope to do so. Obviously, if you've got a Minitrains loco the matter is largely taken care of for you already as the cab is pretty well full of motor and flywheel, but maybe sometimes there's enough space for some bits and pieces, and perhaps scope to mock up the end of a motor as a backhead and add assorted levers, gauges and pipework (the odd flash of copper and brass inside a cab is a nice touch).

So - what should we try to represent, and where should it go? Obviously there will be detail differences between locos but presumably they mostly have the same basic set of parts? What are they, and how should we arrange them?

If anyone has photos of (n/g) loco cabs, or would like to suggest a generic layout of cab fittings (maybe a sketch?) that would be instructive. Also photos of what people have already done on their models - I'm sure there are lots of helpful examples out there.

David.

[Hugh Norwood]

Someone (over in the other place), I think, posted some views of Talyllyn's backhead...
{found it - page 20 of the "Bachmann Skarloey" Thread on ngrm-online}

Have you tried searching G**gle images with "steam locomotive backhead" ?

Could be a useful thread for this forum, however!

[B.Meldon]

As you say there is no point modelling parts that cannot be seen, I will usually place crew members in the doorways so the inside of the cab cannot be seen. But on locos with a visible blackhead I tend to model the fire box door, the regulator, the reversing leaver and one or two gauge glasses. However these are only very basic representations. The fire box door is just a bit of plasticard, the regulator is a bent bit of bell wire with the end painted silver, the gauge glasses are again a bent bit of bell wire with the middle bit painted silver and the reversing leaver is a thin strip of tin with the top end split to form a V shape, again with the top painted silver.
I will if appropriate extend the sand pot rods through the cab front sheet again just a bent bit of bell wire with the end painted silver. One other little touch I have done on several locos is to add a whistle or bell pull to the underside of the cab roof using a single strand of multi strand wire.
I also have several cast while metal back heads in slock, I have no idea where these originate from but I got them from the society second hand stand many years ago.
As well as these I have been known to use the plastic back head from the Airfix (Dapol) Pug kit from tile to time.

Brian Meldon

[JulienW]

Sorry to blow my own trumpet here but...

IMG_2182 by Julien Webb, on Flickr

IMG_2181 by Julien Webb, on Flickr

Here is one (a EuroNG O&K 0-6-0) where I decided to go to town, if only to hide the motor.  It's the result of a thread I started on NGRM-Online asking for info on O&K cab interiors (there are some photos that others have posted on there) and is essentially made up of bits n bobs (the reversing leaver is from a Wills signalbox interior kit for example).

I suspect that much less will be seen once crew are in place but I know it's there...

Some other (full size) examples:

WD Baldwin 4-6-0 (tracks to the Trencehs 2014)
DSCN3912 by Julien Webb, on Flickr

Davenport 0-4-0 at Statfold Barn
DSCN4112 by Julien Webb, on Flickr

Bagnall 4-4-0T Izibutu, also at Statfold
DSCN4129 by Julien Webb, on Flickr

[clayliner]

Hugh - thanks for looking up the Skarloey page. I had seen it, too, and have been trying to use it but some of the details are rather indistinct. You seem to have covered all the key items, Brian, and as you say there's not a lot of point in being too obsessive about the details. Nice photos, Julien, especially the cab of the Davenport. Just out of interest (and for my education) it would be nice to know what each of those pipes from the (?) steam fountain serves.
Some regulator linkages seem to go straight out of the cab front to a valve up on the dome - I think TR No 6 'Douglas' has an arrangement like that, also Andrew Barclay 'Glyder'. I wonder what that looks like from inside the cab?

David.

[JulienW]

DSCN4112 by Julien Webb, on Flickr

I think that the fat pipe bolted to the ring below the fountain runs to the dome (certainly looks like that on an external shot). The ones coming out at right angles may be the steam feeds to the injectors but what the other three are (those coming out of the top of the fountain)...  One may be a blower in the smoke box to help with raising steam, and iirc there would be something for the breaking (air pump?).

As to regulator valves there seem to be two types.  Builders like Baldwin and O&K used a 'pull out' regulator.  I'm not sure of the set up on the Baldwin but the O&K has a leaver that moves fore & aft linked to a rod that goes through the cab front to the valve mounted on the side of the dome. The other type use a rotating valve and the leaver acts like the hand on a clock to turn the rod rather than slide it).  I'm not sure what Barclay used, but a look in the cab would show which.

[Hugh Norwood]

Actually, I think it would be a good idea if someone could produce a few labelled photos showing what all the pipes and wheels and levers do. I don't have a clue... :(

I mean... steam fountain??? (Is that how they froth the milk?)

[Gerhard Novak]

I suppose they mean the highest position of the boiler where you take the steam from as it is the driest steam you can get. At some boilers it was formed as a dome. But you are right. A picture with explanations may be of help.

[tedp]

The 'fountain' is more generally called the steam manifold. The manifold feeds the injectors, the blower, the whistle, a vacuum ejector and (if it is there) a displacement lubricator. Also, a thin pressure gauge steam line is taken from the manifold. On some German or American engines it also feeds an air compressor that powers any air-operated device (steam bell, air brakes). Not sure how the pipes are arranged on the Davenport.

The Davenport indeed has a pull-out regulator handle. The actuating rod seems to go through a gland in the backhead, with the valve inside the dome further along the boiler. The handle just this side of the reversing lever looks like the vacuum brake valve. There's another on the far side which I don't know the function of.

Most locomotives have one or two gauge glasses. If they have one, by law they are obliged to have proof valves on the backhead, usually three, to check the water level in the boiler in a primitive way. If you open one, and water comes out, the water level is over the valve. If steam comes out, it's below the valve.

On the Davenport there is a ring-shaped grip which I suppose operates the sand. In addition you may find a lever or a grip that operates the cylinder cocks, and near the floor there will be a damper lever to open or shut the ashpan dampers, admitting more or less air to the grate. I think that is in the aperture in the floor.

[clayliner]

Thanks, guys, for the further info. As Ted says, it looks as though the regulator on the Davenport is of the push-pull type - though I'm a bit puzzled about the associated gland he mentions: does this imply it goes into the firebox (steam / water space) and then on into the boiler? This would seem unnecessarily complicated (especially for a small, cheap loco), compared with a linkage through the front cab-sheet direct to a valve on the dome.

Presumably the Davenport has a dome, too (most locos seem to have one) and that's where the dry steam would be taken off from the boiler, I presume, via the regulator valve to do the real work. Steam from the fountain probably wouldn't need to be particularly dry for the various auxiliary functions which Julien listed. Though if that fat pipe is feeding live steam to the dome, Julien, I wonder what for? Presumably the dome is filled directly with steam direct from the boiler steam space anyway, to supply the regulator valve within (I thought that's what domes were for).

Sorry - I'm not quibbling with anyone's comments, it's just that each answer seems to throw up another question!

Finally, just to encourage (depress?) anyone trying to fit out a cab realistically:

'Puffing Billy' cab by clayliner, on Flickr

- a shot of the cab of Brian Guilmant's exquisite 'Puffing Billy' model which he was showing me this morning. (The lighting's not good but I think we can all get the message.)

As Hugh says, if anyone has the time or inclination to do a labelled sketch that might be a useful resource for future modellers (as well as current ones).

David.

P.S.  Hugh - I think you're thinking of those Espresso 0-6-0Ts, which seem to have been popular in Italy.

[JulienW]

I think the pipe I mentioned may be feeding steam from the dome to the fountain in the cab rather than the other way about.

DSCN4111 by Julien Webb, on Flickr

The steam dome is the one at the rear (to avoid any confusion!) where one should see a pipe (with a valve) running back into the cab whose position seems to tie up with the one inside the cab running from the cab front sheet into the fountain base.  As it's a tender loco I suspect that the injectors are under the cab floor in order to pull the water from the tender then send it along the copper pipe that runs out from under the cab and 'footplate' (more 'board' than plate) to the clack valve on the side of the boiler. There is a second set of pipes on the other side of the loco.

[Graeme Dunbar]

I've found this a fascinating topic - thanks!

I particularly like the milk frothing mental image which apart from the steam not being blown through milk is a good analogy. Looking things up online I see that yet another term for manifold or fountain is turret:
http://www.railway-technical.com/st-glos.shtml#MANIFOLDSTEAM

[clayliner]

Thanks for that, Graeme - an excellent on-line resource, which will save me having to ask other daft questions!

You may well be right about the 'big pipe', Julien. I confess I'd assumed that the fountain / manifold was fed from the steam space above the firebox, but I suppose there's a greater chance of water carry-over there, especially if the loco is shunting and the water is slopping to and fro (which is why the dome is usually half-way along a boiler).

David.

[clayliner]

With the help of the foregoing comments, this is what I've cobbled together over recent days:

P1010218a by clayliner, on Flickr

I've had to construct an extra 'lump' to cover the top of the motor which is detachable for lubrication purposes - there is a bearing beneath. Given that most of it will be invisible once it's surrounded by cab I have probably wasted more of my life on it than I should have (there were originally two gauges but one fell prey to the carpet monster and I wasn't going to make a replacement).

David.

[MickT]

An excellent job David. I am now rather mystified - please reveal all as to what chassis that is?

Mick