Mini Leek & Manifold Kitson

[howardclowes]

I've been spending these dark evenings building a scratchbuilt model of a Kitson style 2-4-2. Being born and bred in Buxton, I'm a big fan of the Leek & Manifold Railway, and I've bought a Meridian Models model of the 2-6-4, along with a Minitrix N gauge 2-6-2 chassis - but that's a future project.

I wanted something rather smaller, so had the idea of a fictional version of the L&M 2-6-4 Kitsons - similar in style, but smaller - say a 2-4-2 - about 18ft rather than 26ft long.

This is (literally) cut & pasted from Robert Gratton's book, and illustrates in a rather crude form what I'm trying to achieve.



I'll leave it there for the time being. I'm a bit new to this posting business, and I'm not sure I've inserted the above image correctly. (If I haven't, can someone advise me?)

[Gerhard Novak]

You are much better than I am - it took me quite a while to add images...
Your image is visible, all works fine

Gerhard

[JulienW]

As a suggestion of something else with local links that is about the size you seem to be looking for have a look for a Kerr Stuart 0-4-2T Skylark kit (once under the Chivers Finelines label now sold by Five79.  One was used on the construction of the L&M along with the Sirdar (Kerr Stuart 0-4-0T), and whilst the kit is designed for the hard to get (and dubious quality) Bachmann 0-4-0 chassis I would recommend using one of the 0-4-0 chassis from the N-Drive range - iirc he does one with the correct 3' wheelbase (though perhaps not the 10 mm wheel diameter - I think the biggest is 8 or 9) and the kit should only need minimal modifications to fit the chassis.

It might also be possible to make a passable Sirdar using the Skylark kit (or parts of it) and one of the Minitrains F&C outside frame 0-4-0 chassis.

[howardclowes]

Thanks Julien, that's food for thought for a future project. I'm impressed by the performance of the Minitrains chassis, but it's a little too long, and the motor would be very visible in the open cab of the Sirdar. There's a photo of the Skylark on the N-Drive website, but with an inside frame chassis - an outside framed version is under development. Slow speed running is very important for me, and I can't believe that the N-Drive chassis can be as good as the Minitrains given its small size. Can it?

[B.Meldon]

Looking at your drawing the obvious question is where will the firebox go?

On the original 2-6-4 the firebox was between the rear driving wheels and the first of the rear bogie wheels.

Brian Meldon

[rod335]

Julien- Pretty sure a Skylark had 2' 3" (9mm) diameter wheels.

[howardclowes]

Brian - I've not built it exactly as per the drawing, so the firebox seems to go from midway between the two driving wheels to about halfway between the rear bogie and the rear driving wheels. It's been hauling trains on my layout for the past 3-4 weeks, so wherever it goes, it seems to work!!  ;D

I'll post the next instalment tomorrow. I need to catch a train now (12" to the foot scale!).

[JulienW]

Thanks Julien, that's food for thought for a future project. I'm impressed by the performance of the Minitrains chassis, but it's a little too long, and the motor would be very visible in the open cab of the Sirdar. There's a photo of the Skylark on the N-Drive website, but with an inside frame chassis - an outside framed version is under development. Slow speed running is very important for me, and I can't believe that the N-Drive chassis can be as good as the Minitrains given its small size. Can it?

A lot of that is to do with the motor, and Neville uses a flat can motor (from Mashima?) not unlike the MinitrainS ones. The two N-drive chassis that I have run very well, I can't really compare them to the MinitrainS ones (haven't had a chance to run any of my three at an exhibition) but better than the Bachmann chassis they replaced under two Chivers (Five79) Woolwich Arsenal Avonside 0-4-0 locos.

Having thought about this I understand that Paul Windle has produced at least one (maybe more) Sirdar locos on a modified N-drive chassis that had been fitted with outside frames (there was one at the Colehill members day - I photographed it and I think Mick Thornton did to). I haven't (yet!) asked Paul how he did this as I don't think that Neville has got around to it yet, so it may be worth asking Paul how he does it, or seeing if he could do the conversion on a chassis for you to do an OSF Skylark.

This (https://flic.kr/p/AWb7cY) might link to my photo (doesn't always work on the iPad).

Rod, I'm sure you are right - I admit I didn't check when I posted! ;D

[howardclowes]

Thanks for your input. It's certainly made me think about a Skylark/Sirdar for a future project.

But to continue, I bought a Minitrains F&C chassis from Member's sales, some plasticard, domes and chimneys from Parkside Dundas and set to work. I planned to use the spare pony trucks from the Minitrix 2-6-2.

You'll see from the first photograph that it doesn't look quite right. It's even worse when the footplate is added in the second photo. 

It turns out that the F&C chassis was not a good choice for this. The rear pony truck is much too far back, and the trucks are inside frames - the main chassis has outside frames.

In the next thrilling(!) instalment, I'll reveal what I did about it. It will make a very long post if I tell the whole story in one go!

[MickT]

(there was one at the Colehill members day - I photographed it and I think Mick Thornton did to). I haven't (yet!)

You're right Julien, I did photograph it at Colehill, on Tom Snook's layout, but I'm afraid it isn't a good photo and doesn't show anything of the chassis. However, just to satiate the curious, it is photo number 030 on my report of the Colehill members day held in December 2015 and posted on my blogsite at: http://micksrovingreporter.blogspot.co.uk/

In case nobody wants to be delighted by the range of photos on there. the photo in question is reproduced here..................!!

Mick

[B.Meldon]

Perhaps it worth mentioning that the distinctive L&M locos were designed by Everard Calthrop. The cab design and general proportions are instantly recognisable as his design.

However the basic design principle that he applied to all his locos, coaches and wagons was that each axle would take the same weight of 5 long tons (5.1 tons) each.
This included the driving wheels and the bogie wheels on the locos. Any re-designed loco that uses the general shape of the loco and uses its distinctive cab that is obviously a Calthrop design should in theory also comply with the axle loading.

One example of the larger 4-8-4 Calthrop locos as used on the Barsi Light Railway in India survives.  Here is a photo of No.11, Kitson 4509 of 1907 "Lord Airdale", the steam is being produced by a smoke generator in the smoke box and it has 'Sir Alec' nameplates on it now!



Here is a link to the location of the loco on Google maps: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/17%C2%B026'18.5%22N+78%C2%B030'37.7%22E/@17.4384714,78.5098814,382m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Brian Meldon

[Gerhard Novak]

Probably a bit too far for a weekend trip... :)

[MickT]

I think Brian has his own private Learjet airborne limousine, so it is but a few hours flight from Essex......................

Mick

[howardclowes]

Well, the Minitrains F&C chassis had to go. It wasn't wasted - it now sits under a very nice Narrow Planet Hudswell-Clarke. I like the Minitrains range - they run very smoothly, so I bought the older Krauss chassis from members' Sales.  This has a much shorter rear overhang, and has inside frames. Although the original Kitsons were outside framed, this one is fictional, so it won't matter (to me ;D).

I got hold of an expended bullet casing from a Bisley sharpshooter to use as the boiler. Ideal  because, having a closed end, I could fill it with molten lead. The more weight the better!

I wanted a functional front light, so I made this by encasing the smallest LED I could find in plastic card. The rim was a circle of soft wire, wrapped around a screwdriver - snipped and soldered up. All this had to be done early in the process, as the wires would have to be built in as work proceeds.

Next job - the body.

[rod335]

Have you considered the Branchlines 'Hawk' chassis for this? It can be built up as a 2-4-2. Could be a useful learning curve into chassis building.