How to get Vee tippers to tip automatically?

[Chris Wright]

Has anyone found a way to eject the load from 009 vee tipper wagons?  They are so light that pushing the bucket upwards with a servo or a cam frame just would push the truck off the track.  There is a wonderful demo on youtube of a Japanese modellers solution (probably with magnets somehow I'd guess), where the buckets tip and flip upright again, but it doesn't say anything about how he did it.  There is no space to add significant weight to the frame. 
For your info, I am using 6 Joeff Decauville tippers bought from Society Sales (as these were slightly larger than the Minitrains ones). 

I have soldered a dropper onto the couplers at each end of the rake for automatic uncoupling which works OK, lifting the loop when over a magnet,  but I can't figure out how to empty them or upright them again.

Chris Wright

[cp.409067]

*
Perhaps the answer would be to contrive an arrangement like that used by Fleischmann for their operating skips in both "HO" (the Magic Train "Oe" ones were similar) and "N" scales. In essence these wagons have protrusions (somewhat like steps) on the axleboxes that hook under a rail on the offside (as opposed to the unloading side) of the track at the discharging point. The effect is to stop the whole chassis moving laterally when the skip bucket tips.


CP

[Andrew575]

I'm sure that Dave Rowe achieved this successfully on his Leighton Buzzard layout where he depicted the sand and gravel industry. He does briefly mention that sand was tipped into a sand drier from a wagon on the elevated track behind the drier in his book "Industrial & Mechanised Modelling" Wild Swan 1990, but I can't see any description as to how this was done in the book.
The model press featured numerous articles on his layouts in the 70's and 80's.

[Chris Wright]

Thanks CP for this suggestion, I will try it.  But I wonder if there are any other magnetic?? solutions out there?
Chris Wright

[B.Meldon]

One problem with the Jouef skips is that they lock in the fully tipped position. This is done by the two moulding lines on the side of V of the skip catching on the flanges of the wheels. This also has the effect of stopping the wheels turning when tipped.
(One thing collectors look for on these wagons are marks on the V section made by the wheels, the less the marks there are the more desirable the wagon!)

There is also a problem with the Jouef V skips in that if you paint the gear wheel and the rack it runs in on the end of the wagon it inevitably no longer moves freely and the V section does not fully go back to a level position. They work well enough if left unpainted though.

As a matter of interest they made the Jouef V skip in two colour schemes by the way. The more common ones have a green v section with red frames, but they also made them with light grey V section and brown plastic frames.

So what would be needed to make these wagons tip?

1.   A removable devise to hold the wagon chassis in place on the track.
2.   A leaver that would push the V section to make it tip.
3.   A leaver that would pull the V sevtion to unlock it from the tipped position.


Brian Meldon

[Chris Wright]

Thanks Brian, you are right about the side moulding catching the wheels.  I've removed it on the test wagon successfully.  I've made some progress:  I installed a pb wire spring to spring the bucket back and put a tiny pin in the frame rack teeth so that it will only return to the upright position.  The gear wheel hits the choked tooth and stops it in the centre position.  I have also fitted a step on the off side of the chassis that catches under a frame mounted alongside the track, stopping the wagon from rolling over, as was suggested by Chris Payne.   This all works fine but I can't find a way to make it tip!  It's OK if you pull down the bucket but any device to push it from the opposite side or underneath just lifts the wagon off the track again.  I am thinking that I may have to use a wire hook on a servo that pulls down on the tipping side of the bucket.  This works fine by hand but it's not going to be easy to make it look realistic.  I wonder if there were any such automated tipping devices in the real world?  Anyone got any pictures of such a real life device?  Or a way to operate it with an electromagnet?

The guy that did it on the You Tube film below must have used magnets.
Thanks Brian, you are right about the side moulding catching the wheels.  I've removed it on the test wagon successfully.  I've made some progress:  I installed a pb wire spring to spring the bucket back and put a tiny pin in the frame rack teeth so that it will only return to the upright position.  The gear wheel hits the choked tooth and stops it in the centre position.  I have also fitted a step on the off side of the chassis that catches under a frame mounted alongside the track, stopping the wagon from rolling over, as was suggested by Chris Payne.   This all works fine but I can't find a way to make it tip!  It's OK if you pull down the bucket but any device to push it from the opposite side or underneath just lifts the wagon off the track again.  I am thinking that I may have to use a wire hook on a servo that pulls down on the tipping side of the bucket.  This works fine by hand but it's not going to be easy to make it look realistic.  I wonder if there were any such automated tipping devices in the real world?  Anyone got any pictures of such a real life device?  Or a way to operate it with an electromagnet?

The guy that did it on the You Tube film below must have used magnets.
See the You Tube "Automatic dropping of egger-bahn type tipper"

[Chris Wright]

Just found how he did it.  Micro magnets on the buckets attracted or repelled by an electromagnet!   I just need to order some magnets, they look like about 3mm diameter on the film.  It works a bit violently but I guess that would make sure the contents always get tipped out.
Chris W

[danny]

Have you tried the Minitrix N gauge ones? They look OK in 009, and tip more freely.

[B.Meldon]

Have you tried the Minitrix N gauge ones? They look OK in 009, and tip more freely.

The Minitrix N gauge V skips also had a loading hopper and an automatic track side tipping mechanism. However even though the wagons were deliberately made large then N scale both these items are too close to the track for 009 use and would hit on the locos or other items of rolling stock.

Brian Meldon