extreme Jintybashing

[tedp]

With the Kitson completed I thought about a rather more relaxing project - just a 'quickie' although I wonder how quick this one would be. So I decided to investigate what might be done with a few battered Triang TT Jiny bodies and an equally battered but quite serviceable Arnold BR65 I have in a box. All 1960s products and nothing much to look at. Obviously this isn't a scale modelling exercise, but I'm not going to apologise!

I discussed the idea with Mick who suggested something interesting to do with them: a heavy 0-6-4T inspired by (but not a model of) the Cavan & Leitrim 'King Edward'.



Source: http://homepage.eircom.net/~yarpie/clr/archive/8.html

Here is what I have - let us see if it might fit. First I photographed the chassis and a Jinty body, corrected the scale of the photos, then I did some designing in Paint.





Obviously the body is too short, and if I look at the prototype, the boiler is far too short. In addition, the boiler has a Belpaire box and the coupled wheelbase is too long. But I said it would be 'inspired by', didn't I?

If we splice two bodies together, we can add a short section between the dome and the firebox.



Note that I drew lines that will help me line up the body with the top of the ballast block. This will have to be cut down as well as it must fit in the shorter tanks.

Then, if we lower the extended body on to the chassis, it will look like this:



Despite the awful bogie and the crude valve gear, and various other details that must be changed, it begins to look a little like the old 'King'.

Compare the doctored model photo to the real thing which I scanned from the Patrick Flanagan book on the C&L, by David & Charles, 1966. The original is in the Irish Railway Record Society (IRRS) library which I hope I may reproduce on this non-public forum.



One of the common complaints about model bashing is you cannot lower the boiler far enough to create the narrow gauge look. The boiler centre line in this case comes out about 10% too high compared with the 'King' if represented to the same size (not scale!). If we splice parts of the IRRS photo on to the model, and cut the Jinty cab down, replacing it with a slightly doctored version of the prototype cab, we get this:



Note that the cab needs to be a bit longer, otherwise the proportions are lost even further. I also altered the chimney and the dome, but these will have to be replaced anyway.

Finally, that awful bogie must go. Since the fixed wheelbase is too long (and the rear wheels foul the ashpan), I wanted to see what a shortened bogie would look like. And I arrived at this:



Various other details must be seen to. The Jinty splashers can be cut down and replaced by the box like structure over the cylinders and slidebars, which will make more space for the Arnold gear and hide some of the crude 1960s detail from view. A cowcatcher can be made from the Langley 'Lyn' fret.

Interesting exercise, don't you think? I think it might have a chance of succeeding. ;)

[tedp]

As a small distraction, here is Robert the Bruce, another Jintybash, that somehow never looked right with that bogie under the rear end. I wondered what it would look like as a 2-6-2. Here is the difference (made up in Photoshop), and I rather liked the result. I now removed the leading wheels from the bogie and will probably make up outside frames for the trucks as suggested by several contributors on NGRM.





Obviously there are several shortcomings even in the 2-6-2 version. The main one is the position of the firebox. If I'd used my head at the time I built this (late 1990s) I would have spliced in another section of Jinty similar to the other one I'm planning, and there might have been an ashpan dropped behind the drivers.

But again, this isn't a scale exercise.

[Elmgate]

Ted has also posted this topic on NGRM Forum. For the benefit of Society members not on there, here is the gist of my reply:

I had a similar idea of extending the boiler, when I made my Campbeltown and Machrihanish ATLANTIC/ARGYLL lookalike. I actually used a piercing saw, with fine blade, to cut around the firebox, close to the inner tank edge, then across the front of the box. I did a similar job with a second, donor, body, but cut across next to the first boiler band. I started with this second part butted against the boiler of the first body. However, I realised that this was not long enough and what I should have done was use two boiler sections from the donor. Rather than cut the second band, I used some curved plastic to piece in the space. I now had the longer boiler I required. Since the tank sides of the Jinty extend well back into the cab, it was not necessary to extend these.

This photo shows the result - you can just make out the joins, which were filled with Miliput or similar -


(Photo - T Sanderson)

In Ted's application, the longer tanks are required. so his original plan is probably better.

The fact that I had a short front section of body, and a spare firebox, meant that I was able to piece these together, to make a short loco, fitted on the Fleischmann 0-4-0 chassis, with pony truck added (from RT Models etched nickle silver parts and Dundas 5.2 mm wheelset with the axle ends cut off):


(Photo - T Sanderson)

The joint is clearer in this under construction picture.
Also a side view -


(Photo - T Sanderson)

I am rather please with the result so far.

Mick T commented about the "skirt" behind the smokebox; on my first two conversions - No 2 ELMGATE and No 3 THATCHAM - I used the Farish 2P compond 4-4-0 chassis, converted to 0-4-2. The large front wheels coincided with the splasher, so it was not necessary to remove this. But I thought the model would look better with the skirt removed, and the underside of the boiler continued, as there is not so much in the way as there is with the original Triang 12mm gauge chassis. Nevertheless, the commutator is visible:


(Photo - M Thornton)

When it came to No 1 SUSSEX, I used the smaller wheeled Pannier chassis. In this case the splashers were redundant, and more work was required to remove these, in the course of which removal of the skirt was a natural consequence. There is even less showing under the boiler in this case:


(Photo - M Thornton)

A similar method was adopted for the C&M loco, and the latest 0-4-2T.

Lastly, I agree that ROBERT THE BRUCE looks better as a 2-6-2.

Tim Sanderson

[tedp]

I'd say you are an accomplished Jinty basher! The boiler of Thatcham seems close to what I'm planning to do. Angus is a different kind of splice. I see you have removed the slab sides from under the boiler. It looks nice - however, I need the heavy ballast block of the Arnold chassis, which has to go in there. So I won't be able to do the same.

As you say, I need longer tanks, so I'll do a basic splice between two bodies. I'm considering though to make the boiler slightly longer so the firebox can drop behind the wheels. A curved piece of styrene sheet, or a section cut out of the discarded front end of one of the donor bodies might work.

Thanks for showing us.

[tedp]

Tonight I had a go at that rear truck on the 'Bruce'. I used some thin shim to make up axleguards and truck frame sides. The axleboxes are a piece of nickel silver with a tiny sliver of plastic tube glued on. Some whitemetal springs, and copper wire for the spring hangers. The truck frame sides are very thin so they are springy and they won't foul the cab steps that way. There is no space to do the same to the front truck. That would foul the cylinders on the curves, so it will stay an inside frame truck. No apologies for the cruel close-ups of a battered chassis.





Half an hour on, and here is the result on its wheels. Here is the outside frame truck in its unpainted state.



I painted the truck frame red, as the frames of the loco are red, and conveniently camouflaged all the other bits black. It is a bit murky under there, but I think it can be made out. At least the bare look under the cab has gone now. The only thing remaining is to reinstate the hand brake crank under the fireman's side, which broke off. But I should have a brake crank from a wagon kit somewhere.





Done enough for tonight. Cheerio!

[Elmgate]

Looking just right!

[tedp]

Putting the Jinty shells to the saw

After a week full of distractions, such as having to take the sails and running rigging off my boat which is due to be hauled out soon, yesterday night I put the Jinties to the saw for the new model based on the C&L 'King Edward'. I first removed the bunker from one shell which was undamaged at the back end. This one evidently suffered a motor meltdown since the firebox top has been subjected to heat.



Next, I cut it right through just in front of the firebox.





I found a Roco track cleaning block was a useful tool to set up the various body parts on. Here the rear end of the cab is being removed from the bunker section. Eventually only a tab will be left standing on the cab rear and front, to glue a styrene sheet cab to.





You will find I am investigating a design in which the boiler is about 8mm longer than I initially planned. This will drop the ashpan behind the wheels, but the down side it I will have two scarred areas on the boiler top where the domes were removed. I'm not yet sure whether to carry on with this.





Here is the result up to now. I think it is rather too long, so probably I will remove a section from the shell to get closer to the original idea. Despite this, the slightly brutish front heavy look of the original 'King' is already in evidence. Note that the front of the Arnold chassis will have to be cut off still. Also, I'm not yet certain about that chimney. I may have to find a narrower one. There was some adverse comment on that on the other forum which I think is deserved.



Here is a close-up of the footplate just forward of the tanks. I cut out the splasher and a bit of footplate so I could lower the body further on the chassis. The cylinder block was cut down and in addition I cut down the lead ballast block so it fits better into the boiler. The footplate will be covered in a structure that I think on the prototype contained access to the valve chests and the front sandboxes.



The chimney shown below is the only alternative I have at present. It's slightly too small I think but it's better proportioned. I really should have something with the CI

[tedp]

Yesterday I have been busy filling the gaps of the splice in the tanks of the 0-6-4. I filled, sanded down and filled again, then put on a coat of matt black:



You'll probably agree this looks terrible. But after the filler has been sanded down and obscured by black paint, it looks like this. Better, don't you think?



It still has the dome and chimney I use as a temporary stand-in, and the tanks still needs a touch of wet-and-dry after the paint has dried enough. Now since I have cancelled today's hauling out of my boat due to the wet and windy weather expected, I may have time to make up and fit that cab, and look into a permanent fixture to the chassis...

Next I straightened the body on to the chassis, using styrene packing pieces. I found the chassis has a list to port the left, possibly due to wear, so I corrected the attitude of the body on the chassis to straighten it out. A piece of brass shim was glued inside the shell, curved to the shape of the boiler, that will take the mounting screw.

I printed out a drawing sent to me by Mick and found that if I reduce it to 3.8mm scale (about 1/80th scale), the proportions of the model are about right - even the height of the boiler centreline is correct. The footplate and tank tops are about 1mm too high above track, the coupled wheelbase about 3mm too long and slightly offset to the rear. The edge of the cab roof would be about 35mm over track level but I think I will allow one more mm to correct for the tank top.

Developments

I made even more progress. First, I matched the loco against the diagram sent to me by Mick. The photo below shows what I did, although the model seems a bit out of proportion. I assure you though, it largely matches the 1:80 diagram.



The diagram incidentally comes from a 1950s Railway Modeller issue.

I finally cut a few unwanted pieces off the chassis. The Roco track saw again proved a very useful tool:



Building the cab began by shaping two pieces of 1mm styrene, cutting out the spectacle windows using a paper punch and rounding off the roof edge. This has a 2mm curve, which was drawn on in pencil using the bottom of a spray can. The surplus was snipped off with scissors. Next I filed the two pieces to shape and fitted them on the body shell. The old cab remnants were largely removed and I needed some filling pieces of styrene and an overlay to make a better bond of the rear sheet to the body shell. An 8mm wide strip was used as a backbone to stabilise the cab.



Next, a thin piece of styrene was used to draw the cab sides upon. The doors on this cab are slightly further towards the rear end than those of the real 'King'. They have to match the walkway between the tanks and the bunker. The window is approximately in the right place. The rounded corner holes were drilled first, then the cuts were made in the sheet and the windows filed to shape.



The coal rails of the bunker (which are pure LMS, nothing like the bunker of the 'King') were cut away slightly to accommodate the cab sides which were glued to the cab front and back, and to the tanks and bunker. Note the too-small radiused corners to the cab sides where they join the tank and the bunker.



The radiused edges to the cab sides were fitted with beading, using styrene strip. Some more of the coal rail had to go. Here is the result.



Note the slightly recessed cab front and rear. This conforms to this prototype photo:



http://homepage.eircom.net/~yarpie/clr/archive/8.html

And here is the cab rear:



Finally, I fitted buffer beams.

Next will be the cylinders and the covers to the top of the footplate.

[Tigger]

Ted, this is looking really excellent!  A very convincing piece of work.  Well done!

[tedp]

Thanks, David. We're making progress!

Cylinders!

Today I got myself a length of 6.5mm aluminium tube and I made up the cylinders.



The cylinders were cut from the pipe by taking out a 90 degree slice. Then a 9mm length was cut and a tiny bit was taken out to clear the top of the cylinder block.



Note that I made a start with the covers on the front footplate. They still need a side sheet to disguise the fact they were built up from layers of 1mm styrene.

In addition I prepared the bogie and fitted couplings. The bogie is an old Rivarossi coach bogie, fitted with larger wheels and a lead ballast block. A swing link must still be added. The coupling comes from another bogie and has been fitted by splicing onto the existing frame.





Here is another photo, though a bit hazy, showing the impressive front end. Note that I took off the black paint - it simply dissolves when wiped with a rag with white spirit, probably because it's short on curing agent.

[tedp]

trial run!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENVijWcVTs8

The loco took a 12-wagon coal train and the six-wheel brake van uphill comfortably. Still many details to attend to, but it does work all right.

[gtmspyder]

Well done Ted, it's been a very pleasurable read, with your usual very descriptive narrative and photographs.

Keep up the good work.

Kind regards,

BrianT.

[Tigger]

An excellent piece of footage Ted; well done!  Can't wait to se the completed loco!  Running the L&TR on a regular basis again but the locos are beginning to stagger so I think it's about time I had another decent session cleaning track and wheels!  (Nick Robey once called me "a compulsive wheel-cleaner"!) ;D

[tedp]

Thanks David - think of fitting a Relco and the dirty wheels will be a thing of the past as long as you run the layout every few days.

How's the new hip, Brian? Hope all is going well.

[tedp]

After a remark made on the other forum concerning the empty space between the drivers and the bogie, I had a go at building an ashpan.

I have made an approximation of a funny frame behind the last driving wheels of the prototype 'King', which I suspect is part of the firebox carrying structure. The ashpan on the prototype is rather short and wide - almost an afterthought, which of course suits me fine. The parts I used for this bit of detail are 1mm styrene and some old Vollmer rivet plates used for bridge building. I save literally everything...

Here is the result, which of course shows another defect: the lack of a frame under the cab! And the bogie still has to be detailed. In this country however we have a saying that Cologne and Aachen weren't built in one day!



From a slightly different angle the lack of a frame under the cab isn't evident though. It starts to look remarkably like a 'King', I think...