Gradients

[gorwin]

What is the recommended gradient length to lift up to a 4 inch height? I have to clear a 00 sidings on our club layout.

[gtmspyder]

A gradient of 1 in 30 would require 10ft to clear 4ins.

I consider 1 in 30 to be the steepest gradient for a model railway, this is the gradient I am modelling for Glen Ogle.

In real life, the gradient of Glen Ogle was 1 in 60 for six miles or so, a real pull for the loco's of the time.

Regards,

BrianT.

[gorwin]

Hi,  Many thanks, should be able to fit that in.
Gordon

[B.Meldon]

On Westdorf we have a 1 in 30 grade and this is only a problem when hauling more than one loaded transporter wagons in a train. (Usually six bogie vehicles in a train.)

Just think of the gradients on the real railways as a guide:
VOR 1 in 50, WHR 1 in 30, W&L 1 in 29.

In addition to this you will need to ease the gradient on curves, the tighter the curve the less the grade should be, so in 009 on a 12inch curve you should aim at 1in 30 and on a 10inch curve 1 in 40 and so on.

Obviously the less the gradient the better.

Things that can drastically affect grades are materials like rail zip for example will make the locos slip.

Brian Meldon

[rod335]

You keep saying Railzip will make locos slip Brian. I've used it for over ten years (I know you don't like it) and have not yet experienced locos slipping. Indeed neither wheels nor rails even feel oily. Don't know what your doing but it's no problem for me.

Rod

[tat2drod]

Any chance Brian can explain why he's not convinced? I've got some of this stuff but I've not used it yet. It's destined for the OO layout with it's 1:50 gradients (*) and am curious as to what other people think. Tx.

(*) Tested - I made one section slightly steeper and the 04 wouldn't take it - cue rebuild...

[rod335]

If you use Railzip as directed, that is apply, leave for 24 hours and wipe off, there is no residual oiliness. It's only if you leave it on, contrary to manufacturers recommendations, that problems start. I don't know HOW it works, but it does. Its worth remembering that we usually expect our models to climb much greater gradients than the prototype would. 1 in 30 is not uncommon for a model, for the real thing its a great challenge leading to all sorts of problems, both ascending and descending.

Rod

[tat2drod]

Thanks Rod. Rebuttal anyone?

[John Mudd]

I think the sensible answer here is to consider what you want to pull and with what? There is no reason why you can't have a gradient as steep as 1 in 10 or even 7 if your loco has enough weight and grip to pull the anticipated load. My answer is that you should experiment. An 0-4-0 on my layout is quite happy pulling a train of 6,  4 wheel Parkside coaches up a 1 in 10 gradient on a 9" curve. Remember that you are modelling a compressed scale and a 1 in 30 gradient will appear almost level to the observer.

[petersmith1942]

and remember if its an exhibition layout Murphy will be there and will ensure what seemed fine on test just wont hack it when needed; make a sensible allowance for this. My only layout with a gradient on the mainline became a pain and its life was much shorter than it might have been
Peter Smith

[rod335]

I think that a lot of people regard gradients as they do minimum radii. 'What's the steepest it will go up/sharpest it will go round? OK that's what I'll use.' Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work like that does it? You then run into all sorts of ancillary problems such as couplings not working properly. So think about these matters VERY carefully to save a lot of heartbreak later on.

Rod

[B.Meldon]

I tend to agree with Rod on this.
The vast majority of 009/H0e layouts that have any gradients at all are more often than not steeper than normal prototype practice.

The gradients I have on my two exhibition layouts are marginal for the trains we pull. On Pitztalbahn for example we have to double head with some locos.
Every loco is crammed full of lead. (Always balanced on the driving wheels.) Even the R-T-R H0e locos we use have added lead.

On Westdorf with the transporter wagons and seven bogie wagon trains we have to limit the load to one transporter per train.

When we tried railzip as recommended we found that it did indeed make several of the lighter locos slip with the heavier trains.

So yes the reason we had problems with railzip is that we have marginal gradients, but so do the vast majority of 009 layouts.  Grades of 1 in 50 or more are very rare on 009/H0e layouts so the vast majority will be using marginal grades and like us will probably find problems when using railzip.
Obviously flat, or nearly so, layouts will be fne.

Brian Meldon

[tat2drod]

Ok Brian - thanks.

[petersmith1942]

again I cant help comment that many modern locos especially Japanese chassis have motors and drive lines specifically for their intended task. Filling them with lead is not a good idea especially if a decoder is fitted after purchase. Lots of modern stuff just will not take what many just think as normal and prices often reflect designing down to just enough for the job intended. Just my experience talking
Peter Smith

[B.Meldon]

Again I agree Peter.

I do not like the way chassis and in particular motors are developing in N gauge and H0e chassis. I guess as you say it is all done for price, but I can not see many of these modern chassis lasting 30+ years as the older, more crudely made ones have done.

I recently used a Dapol 0-4-2 (14xx) in a saddle tank. The chassis required some work to get it to run the way I wanted it to and the added weight, although improving the locos performance certainly made the motor wormer than without and I would guess that it may not last as a result.

But for