GCR derailment

[engerth399]

Hi All
Apologies that this is not narrow gauge but I thought members might be interested - even amused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr5EztEPJS8

Peter

[Tigger]

Speculation in our office is that the signalman set the points to the main but forgot to set the traps.  Then, not being able to clear the board (which would be slotted with the traps), he gave the driver authority to pass at danger (hence the long whistle).

If that's the case it's six of one and half a dozen of the other but final responsibility still rests with the driver for not checking the road even though it would have been awkward from the cab.

[B.Meldon]

That

[berryr99]

I was surprised at the amount of momentum the loco had,  even though it was travelling quite slowly it seemed to take quite a while to stop

Bob B

[petersmith1942]

so are most people caught on crossings!

[tedp]

I wouldn't say I would be amused. It looks like a procedural problem that may have far reaching consequences for preserved railways if a clampdown follows.

Most accidents have more than one single cause. Two seem to be clear: the driver was given a clear by a signalman who failed to set the starting signal, possibly due to the catch point still being open, and the other is the driver taking off without looking at the road. From the viewpoint of the camera the open catch point could be clearly seen and I watched, quite stunned, as the driver started the train without being aware of it.

At any rate the catch point seems to work.

[engerth399]

Hi All
I wonder if it is not a case of "Whistle and go" as described by Stanley Hall in one of his books on Signalling.  Here the guard whistles as a signal that the train is ready to depart.  However it is not an indication that the road is clear or correctly set but the driver takes it as an indication to start.  However the starter signal is for that.  That will be interlocked with the Catch Points  and cannot be pulled off until they are closed.  From the video I cannot see any reason to think the signalman gave any signal for the train to proceed.

Peter

[petersmith1942]

Although my previous comment was flippant I have since reviewed the appalling comments and conjecture on youtube. I am a very long time GCR member and shareholder. Although I was grateful for the link I think we should leave any conjectire to other forums and hope the proper enquiry is timely and complete
Just looking at the work that clearly went into the locos restoration the event is a minor tragedy for those people
Peter Smith

[Hobby]

Technically there is no rule for how fast you can pass a signal at danger, Brian, though considering you'd be at a stand just behind it anyhow it wouldn't be very fast! There's is if there are points and that is 15mph, otherwise it's just that they should be able to stop in the distance they can see... I've seen ours power up pretty quick after getting the ok to proceed, if it's a fault signal the signaller will say pass that one at danger and obey all other signals, that gives the driver permission to get up to linespeed, though they won't until they've sighted the next signal and confirmed that it's clear...

I was surprised at the amount of momentum the loco had,  even though it was travelling quite slowly it seemed to take quite a while to stop

Bob B

Bob, it's all about reaction time and efficiency of the brakes, by the time they'd realised they were off the road and shut the brakes it would have carried a few yards. It looked to me that he braked as soon as he realised he was off the road... Trains are not like cars, especially old ones like that!

I agree that there's several things that could have caused it and it's probably better to wait and see... As one other Railwayman said on another forum it's fascinating to hear the armchair experts at work, there's been some right gems elsewhere!

[Hobby]

If you fancy some light reading, this is the NR Rule Book section that relates to Signals Passed at Danger:

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule%20Book%20Modules/S%20-%20Signals/GERT8000-S5%20Iss%203.pdf

Section 4.1.c makes interesting reading bearing in mind what heppenned, however I'm not sure if they have any Local Instructions which could change it...

[tedp]

Section 4.1.a mentions the long blast on the whistle referred to by David to confirm a clearance to pass the signal at danger. So there must have been some communication between the signalman and the driver. But this is of course conjecture.

Any news of damage to the loco? I expect springs will have to be re-set and the tender coupling has taken a beating.

[Hobby]

According to another forum the damage isn't that bad, a bent brake hanger at the back and some other minor damage to the tender's running gear. The worst damage was to the bar between the tender and loco which had to be cut in half before they could lift them back on the rails... Nothing that isn't fixable, though! Not so sure about the track, some replacement sleepers I suspect, just to remind any other drivers to keep a good look out in the future!

[rod335]

Sad to see such a very public, and recorded, cock-up. Even sadder with the class of loco involved. For some reason I have a soft spot for these 2-6-0s and one of the (very) few standard gauge models I possess is a Bachmann LMS version bought cheap at the Uckfield show a couple of years ago. It never runs because I don't have anywhere for it to run!

Still, nice to hear there appears to be no great amount of damage caused. Does anyone know for sure if the catch point is interlocked with the signal?

Rod

[eastsomerset]

Just a thought but why didnt the person taking the video shout out to the driver to STOP ? as from the clip you can clearly see the points are still open.


Kevin Carver

[Hobby]

Firstly it's likely they wouldn't have heard them and secondly by the time they'd have reacted if they did hear them (and understood what they were shouting about!) they'd be in the same position as they ended up...