DG Couplings - size for 009

[PUASHP]

Dear All,

I am currently in the process of gathering stock to build my first 009 layout, having previously modelled in N and 00 gauge (see also post in locomotives section).

I am considering using DG couplings for the stock as I used these on my N gauge layout with success and whilst not easy to assemble gave very good uncoupling action.  As the layout will be a terminus and involve shunting I would like to use DG couplings with electromagnets (raided off my old N gauge layout).

My question is, from experince, should I use the 2mm type (11mm x 5mm) or the 3mm type (14mm x 7mm)?  The DG website appears to recommend the 2mm size for 009 but I'm not sure this will be OK if propelling stock as I have read concerns of buffer locking due to the clearance required in the back to back for tight curves?  The 2mm coupling would be very discreet however as I find some of the 009 couplings (ie Bemo) overly large.

Many thanks

Paul

[JulienW]

DG made couplings for N/2mm scale and also for 009.  The only difference between them was that the 009 type are etched in thicker metal!  I have used both the '009' and 'N / 2mm' type on Latham's Brewery without any major issues pulling or pushing stock, but then I have curved the buffing faces.  The key is to set them up properly (all at the same height and centeral to the rails) which you would do for N/ 2mm scale anyway. Where I do have problems this is mainly due to a long overhang on the back of some of my locos propelling stock around a very tight (circa 5" radius!!!) curve, but with sensible curves (and they will be 9" minimum on the rebuilt layout) I can't see it being a problem.

[PUASHP]

Julian,

Thanks for the reply.

I have some 2mm DG couplings in stock from my N gauge days so that would be the easy option.

So far I only have eight items of rolling stock but that should at least get me started.

Regards

Paul

[Krizzy]

DG Couplings originally many years ago recommended the 3mm size for 009. They have a larger buffing plate and the size is best suited for smaller wagons, e g FR slate wagons. I now prefer the Greenwich coupling as you don't have to do a fiddly solder job to fit the steel wire dropper for remote uncoupling.

Roger

[JulienW]

Sorry to disagree Roger...

Looking at the Model Signal Engineering website (currently who sell the DG couplings), Type A is the 2 mm / N scale type and type D is the 3 mm / 009 type.  The jig for the loops are the same, and looking at the etches there is no indication on the etch as to type (A or D) and the buffer size is the same on both types - the only way to tell them apart was to measure the thickness of the metal!

[Krizzy]

Julian

I only stated what the inventor of the coupling recommended to me thirty or more years ago. And that size is what I will continue to use if and when I need to over my preferred Greenwich.

Roger

[JulienW]

<snipped>
I only stated what the inventor of the coupling recommended to me thirty or more years ago. And that size is what I will continue to use if and when I need to over my preferred Greenwich.

Roger

Then perhaps the inventor, or the users (2 mm Association?) decided to enlarge the buffer face on the N Guage 2 mm scale "Type A" ones as some point?  I have examples of both type A (for N and 2 mm scale) and type D (for 3 mm and 009) in my possesion and apart from the metal thickness they are dimentionally the same.  In fact the only way I can tell them apart is by using dial calipers to measure the thickness of the etch.

I can see that using thicker metal would be an advantage in that the coupling is less likely to get bent out of shape by any rough shunting, as the size (and therefore mass) of the generally white metal stock in 3 mm scale, and 009, available 30 years ago would be greater than their N / 2 mm scale equivalents.  But given that in the last 30 years or so more use has been made of injection moulded styrene for 009 kits (and in 3 mm scale!) I suspect that the weight of a 4 wheel wagon in 009 is not too dissimilar to an N gauge one (even ballasted up).  The only problems I have had with my DGs is that they are prone to being knocked out of alignment getting them in and out of the stock box, but that is due to my stock box and I must arrange better accomodation for my stock, and I find that the type A are more suseptable to this damage as they are made of thinner metal.   

However, in my expierience I have not had any issues with using both types (A and D) on my stock, and no issues of incompatability with coupling the two types up. As Paul already has some of the Type A then I can't see a reason not to use them for 009, and should he decide to try some Type D at a later date there will not be any issues of compatability, based on my own expierience.

Julien.

[PUASHP]

Roger/Julian,

I plan to fit some DG's to my freight stock this weekend so I will keep you posted with the results (and pics)

Cheers

Paul

[PUASHP]

Bent and soldered up enough 2mm DG couplings to fit to some stock toaday.  I have painted them first before fitting the loops and droppers later.  They have been fixed to the wagons with epoxy resin glue, supported by some plasticard packers under the floor.

So far so good and they appear less obvious (more to scale) than the larger Bemo style couplings.

Apologies for the quality of the picture.

I will post again when I have fitted the droppers, hopefully with a better photo or maybe even a video of the operation.

Paul

[Krizzy]

Paul

Your rolling stock look fine with the couplings fitted. So far no one has mentioned the height of them above the rails. Going back to the beginnings of 009/HOe the Eggerbahn Fiery Elias coaches I have the coupling height is 5mm to the top of the buffing plate. I have two of the original Minitrains locos that have 6mm height as has my Liliput 0-6-2T loco. All my current locos and rolling stock have the coupling buffing plate height set to 6mm. Having a uniform coupling height for your stock is a must as you will no doubt find just how delicate 009 couplings are. You will also find that different kits you put together means that care is required to achieve that uniform coupling height.

Keep up the good work

Roger

[PUASHP]

Just done some measurements and the coupling height is 4mm.  This is mainly to suit the Parkside Dundas kits.

For the record I shall only fit loops to one end of the wagon and locos only, which means you can only run the stock one way round.  I find this gives a more reliable coupling and should not cause any issues, I just need to decide which is the locos 'good side' is before fitting the couplings as this will always be the side to the viewing public.

Currently I am adjusting height to a master wagon so hopefully all will be OK, as long as I don't manage to drop any stock on the floor.

[JulienW]

For setting the height of the couplings I have a length of track fixed to a bit of 2" by 1".  At one end of the track between the rails a wood screw has be put in but not fully tightened.  The trick is to use a flat-topped screw - like a countersunk head, and you only screw it in so far.  The idea is that you set the coupling so that the loop of the coupling just touches the top face of the screw, and the same jig can be used for any of the 'lifting loop' (Bemo, Greenwich, Windle, etc.) couplings.

Can't claim any originality for the design as my 009 version is based on a 00n3 one given to me by Andy Cundick so my Irish NG stock would run with his.  But Roger is right in that you really need some form of jig to set the couplings so that they are all at the same height, particularly with DGs.

I fix the couplings to stock using small (14 or 16 BA) screws.  This probably complicates the issue of fixing them, but it means that I have a stronger joint as the screw has quite a high shear strength (a lot more than super glue and probably more than epoxy resin) and have a means of fairly easily replacing the coupling should it become damaged without wreking the wagon.  I also use 2 screws for each coupling as it means that even if they work loose the coupling can't rotate

I will say that 4 mm above the rail sounds quite low, if that's the height of the top surface of the coupling.  From memory mine are set to 5.5 mm - not that I've ever measured it as I initially set the screw on the jig using one of the little Roco 4 wheel v-skip wagons! That aside it seems to match the height guage that the Greenwich mob supply for use with their couplings, and seems fairly compatible with other (non-DG) couplings on the odd occasions that Latham's stock runs on other layouts.  The height might mean cutting holes in buffer beams, either a cut out or a slot for the back of the DG to pass through (or bending the back around the buffer beam), but NG stock with chopper couplings had them fixed through the beam, not below them!

Another observation I'd make with your stock Paul is that you might find it useful to bend the tips of the buffers back slightly to create a slightly curved rather than flat buffing face.

[PUASHP]

Julian,

I like the tip for setting the coupling height with the screw.

I shall try that as it should make things more consistent. I will also bend the wings back a little more whch should help on the curves.  I am working on the theory that as long as all the couplngs on my stock are the same height I shall be happy as I currently not looking for interchangeability with other stock.

Cheers

Paul