Some interesting points have been raised in the thread on Peco points and lest I and others take it further off topic I thought I'd start a new thread....
What do people use for underlay (if they use it at all)?
and as a related subsidiary question, what is used to hold the track down?
Some people are of the opinion that the track should be fixed rigidly to the the baseboard/trackbed. I have used this method for T gauge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw8SCKRFH_U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw8SCKRFH_U)
The trackbed in this case is two laminations of 3 mm polystyrene sheet and the track is glued down with cyanoacrylate glue. The reason being that the track is a folded figure of 8 or "twice round" and the track had a mind of its own no matter how I tried to coax it into shape and so needed fixing very firmly.
However for 009 and N gauge I've used 3 mm black foam bought an a model railway exhibition as a "high-tech" cork sheet replacement and glued it to the baseboard and the track to it with UHU or equivalent impact or contact adhesive. (Beware! the solvent based type attacks Peco N gauge setrack.)
The reasons for doing so were for sound deadening (I've not noticed any improvement) and something I read in an Iain Rice book on "floating" trackbeds. (I think he recommended camping mat foam, which is a lot thicker.)
What to people use and why?
Never bothered I'm afraid, Graeme, straight to the baseboard!
(Should have guessed you'd have a dabble in T! ;D )
I am the same as Blair.
I use no underlay of any type and the track fixed firmly to the wooden track bed.
I have never found the
Quote from: B.Meldon on October 13, 2011, 14:12
I have never found the noise of 009 locos to be any problem at all and the idea of floating track work in 009 when the running is so dependant on perfect track and rail joints sound like a recipe for problems to me.
I take on board your concern and advice regarding floating trackwork. However, when you say that you have never had a noise problem, do you mean that the noise level is at an acceptable level, or you do not regard the noise issue as being a problem at all?
Quote from: Rhobat Bryn on October 13, 2011, 16:28
......when you say that you have never had a noise problem, do you mean that the noise level is at an acceptable level, or you do not regard the noise issue as being a problem at all?
At exhibitions the ambient noise in the room will drown out the noise created by the models so there is not problem at all at exhibitions.
The noise at home in a room with just yourself and the trains can be noticeable with some older chassis, probably the worst being the 1960
Many thanks, Brian. That's very instructive.
If you use an "open frame" type of construction, then my experience is that the noise doesn't really become an issue until the in-fill scenery layer is installed, at which time the whole frame becomes like a resonating sounding board. It's a difficult thing to sort out, and I agree with Brian that having the track securely laid is vital in our narrow gauge. The quietest boards I have are those with the trackbed of 1/2" ply wood, but they are also the heaviest.
Quote from: duttonbay on October 15, 2011, 01:59
I agree with Brian that having the track securely laid is vital in our narrow gauge.
Yes, I believe I'll be following Brian's advice on this that correct running has to be the priority, expecially as this is my first layout.
Thanks. It is giving me something to think about. I have always followed the herd an received wisdom that using underlay was the way to do it.
As has been said, noise from the baseboard is often not an issue at exhibitions (especially when you are placed next to a trade stand selling DVDs and they are keen to advertise their wares!) However, whatever I've built has seemed quite noisy at home.
I'm no expert but, like several others here, I lay my track direct to the base boards. In my case they are 6mm ply.
A mate of mine, some years ago, covered his boards in cork and then laid his 00 track on top in thge usual way. He ballasted part of it using the PVA glue and water technique. What I found very interesting was that the locos ran very quietly over the track section where there wasn't any ballast but the transmitted noise increased when they reached the ballasted part.
In view of that, I've never bothered.
Regards,
Dave
I'm tending towards the "direct to ply wood" approach, also i have noticed that the noise level rises with the addition of ballast despite sound reducing underlay, due to the rigidity of the ballast/glue compound. Its not as if its thunderous noise levels really. Another sound amplifier seems to be wooden flooring, layouts in attic spaces seem to have noise problems that transmit to the rooms below, the only solution to that is in the layout supports and fixings it would seem, or issuing family ear plugs.
In my mind, track should never be pinned but glued and finally held in place by the ballast, just like the real thing. Thin ply is the obvious choice and frankly, I do not think the noise will affect those below. If they can hear the occasional train, might I suggest getting them to play some Death Metal by Napalm Death. They will never be able to hear anything ever again.
JdF
Quote from: pilotfriend on October 22, 2011, 19:25
In my mind, track should never be pinned but glued and finally held in place by the ballast, just like the real thing.
May I ask why you prefer to glue rather than pin?
Fisrtly, I have seen too much distorted track when pins are used.
The main reason is that I like to set track with my eye at rail level, (just like a real track foreman). This prevents any small kink or kick in the track. I use 20 minute epoxy so I have the time to get the track looking 'just so'.
Quote from: pilotfriend on October 23, 2011, 08:22
Fisrtly, I have seen too much distorted track when pins are used.
The main reason is that I like to set track with my eye at rail level, (just like a real track foreman). This prevents any small kink or kick in the track. I use 20 minute epoxy so I have the time to get the track looking 'just so'.
Many thanks for the explanation. Something else to add to the 'bear it in mind for the future' list.
I glue my track down, but in defence of the "pinners", I understand that the way some people do it is to make sure the holes in the track are big enough for "clearance fit" for the pins and then push them in only just enough to hold the track in place. Both precautions are to ensure the track does not distort. Some advocate drilling two holes near the ends of a sleeper and not one in the centre of a sleeper for similar reasons.
There may even be people who tack the track down temporarily with pins, ballast, and then remove the pins.
I might change my tune if I have to replace any points, but gluing track down seems simpler, especially as I don't use softer baseboard materials like Sundeala that accepts pins more easily.
Yep, I'm one of the "drillers"... Though I think I forgot to remove the pins on SB... Must check! :o
"...The main reason is that I like to set track with my eye at rail level, (just like a real track foreman). This prevents any small kink or kick in the track. I use 20 minute epoxy so I have the time to get the track looking 'just so'..."
An excellent practice. When we were building 'Happisburgh' Dave Reed did just this and produced some beautiful sweeping curves.
On the 7
"Yep, I'm one of the "drillers"... " ..................... Driller Killer! ;D
Eye level track laying is the only way (or with mirrors as suggested). If I need to just tack a bit of track before using epoxy, I use superglue with accelerator. I glue every two sleepers at their ends only)
We always pin the track down and the sleepers are all pre drilled.
We also pre-bend all the curves. This takes a lot of time but ensures that there are minimal sideways forces on the rail chairs or rail joints. The rail is removed from the sleepers, bent into shape and then threaded back on the sleepers again before it is laid. Very careful preparation of the wooden track bed is vital. This starts when selecting the wood. When ballasted using the pva method the track is additionally secured as well, but the parts of the layout that are not ballasted are fixed down with the pins only. Maybe it is because we pre bend all the curves, but we do not have any problems with distorted track and in some cases the track is exactly where it was laid some 30 years later. On the other hand I have seen track that was glued down come unstuck with the passage of time, but again this is probably down to the glue used.
One other advantage of using pins is that prior to ballasting it is easy to lift and re-position the track if you need to do so.
Clearly both the glue and the pin system can be successful, so I guess it is just down to personal choice.
Just to recap on what has already been said no mater what system you use to fix the track down the track laying has to be absolutely perfect in 009, accept no compromises on this, it must be without any kinks, dips, lumps or joint steps.
Brian Meldon
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages68%2F36.jpg&hash=25937bd6aac837951620645407862154a65b1dd9)
Peco track laid on Sundeala after storage in your garage. ::)