The Peco / Kato Ffestiniog Small England locos are now listed for pre-order on the Hobbysearch Japan website for February 2022 release. Price in Japan ( excluding shipping costs ) is approx £101.
Garry
Best get your pre-orders in while you can: Princess and Prince currently stand at 1st and 7th places in the sales ranking in the model railway section at Hobbysearch, which indicates they are likely to sell out on pre-order with none left over for people who wait for the release date; often happens with popular items!
Can you please post a link?
I went to the site and can't find the item via the search.
Prince:
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10819360 (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10819360)
Princess:
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10819343 (https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10819343)
Does anyone know the situation regarding VAT and import duty on imported items from Japan?
It is not just the actual VAT but the handling charges as well.
Hattons Model Rlys along with some other traders are quoting.
England locos at £127.50
Separate chassis £55.25
Available Q2 of 2022.
Stan.
Is there a reservation link for just the Chassis?
A quick search of their website reveals...
https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults.aspx?searchfield=kato&scale=OO9%20Narrow%20Gauge
I am disapointed to find that the new Peco/Kato small England locos will only available in a DC-only format. Bachmann have sold over 10,000 DCC compatible Baldwins and their new Fairlie has DCC including sound and even the diminutive Quarry Hunslet has a non-sound DCC capability built in. For Peco to not provide a DCC compatible model of the larger England locos is, in my opinion, a major markettng mistake.
If this non-DCC compatibility is to be repeatd with the Peco/Kato Fairlie then I shall not be buying that model.
In my opinion it seems that Peco may have kow-towed to Mr Kato's DC only policy, a policy that they may regret when competing with Bachmann, who I am sure will be looking at providing little England loco variants in the near future!
Quote from: Retiarius on November 07, 2021, 16:29
I am disapointed to find that the new Peco/Kato small England locos will only available in a DC-only format. Bachmann have sold over 10,000 DCC compatible Baldwins and their new Fairlie has DCC including sound and even the diminutive Quarry Hunslet has a non-sound DCC capability built in. For Peco to not provide a DCC compatible model of the larger England locos is, in my opinion, a major markettng mistake.
If this non-DCC compatibility is to be repeatd with the Peco/Kato Fairlie then I shall not be buying that model.
In my opinion it seems that Peco may have kow-towed to Mr Kato's DC only policy, a policy that they may regret when competing with Bachmann, who I am sure will be looking at providing little England loco variants in the near future!
Hi
As a Dcc user I will be avoiding buying a little engine I really don't fancy paying £135 plus postage then going to rewire a locomotive if Bachmann can fit an N gauge 03 and 04 then why can't this locomotive have an next 18 or a 6 pin decoder socket fitted straight from the factory
Thanks
Alan
P.s thanks for bringing this to our attention
I'd hazard a guess that it is not just Kato but a Japanese thing, from looking at various web sites there. I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but I understand they are concerned primarily with their domestic market and the UK market is down at noise level.
Quote from: Iain Morrison on November 07, 2021, 19:50
Quote from: Alan Pollock on November 07, 2021, 19:29
... if Bachmann can fit an N gauge 03 and 04 then why can't this locomotive have an next 18 or a 6 pin decoder socket fitted straight from the factory ...
Because KATO only makes DC locos, it was never going to be anything else but DC.
Hi
Even at that I'd still expect some sort of Dcc plug and play it will be interesting to see how well it sells particularly in the UK market having said that it would be interesting to see how many 009 modeller's are using Dcc i bet it will be a surprising number.
Thanks
Alan
Quote from: Iain Morrison on November 07, 2021, 20:14
I think you will find that it is a surprisingly small number using DCC, and very much in the minority.
Hi
In the 009 scale that might be the case as the ready to run market has been neglected until now
Thanks
Alan
If you are fresh into 009 modelling, then using DCC could well be the way forward, but if like me,you have been modelling for more
years than you can remember and have a large fleet of locos, then it would be very very expensive to change.
Stan.
Quote from: Stan Williams on November 07, 2021, 21:39
If you are fresh into 009 modelling, then using DCC could well be the way forward, but if like me,you have been modelling for more
years than you can remember and have a large fleet of locos, then it would be very very expensive to change.
Stan.
It is not just the fleet of locos that is an issue for me, also all my existing layouts are wired with common return for the track, point motors and every other electrical component. This virtually halves the wires needed, but common return cannot be used with DCC where both the tracks have to be separate from any other non DCC items.
One of the main 'selling points' of DCC is the ability to run multiple locos on the same bit of track.
Given the vast majority of narrow gauge railways run a 'one loco in steam' policy I'm at a loss to see why that would make DCC a necessity for an 009 loco.
Yes, some aspects of DCC - sound for example - are nice to have but I suspect that for a large proportion of 009 modellers "DCC or not" isn't going to be a deal breaker for these locos, especially given how easy it is to wire a chip in to a chassis not designed for one.
Coming back to the subject of this thread - the Peco / Kato Small England Locos for those who have forgotten - let us not forget that KATO are a Japanese company who are primarily aiming at their own domestic market. My feeling is that given the small size of much Japanese accommodation the layouts these locos will be destined for will be small, one loco in steam operations rather (like the majority of home based Japanese layouts?) than the narrow gauge empires sometimes found in the UK, and quite a number are probably going to end up static in display cases. This being the case why on earth would KATO go to the effort and expense of fitting onboard DCC jiggery pokery that most of their target audience will not need, nor want to pay a premium for.
All Peco are doing is offering some technical expertise. As far as I am aware they do not have any financial stake in the project other than lining themselves up to be the main (soul?) UK distributor, and to be honest I suspect that their assessment of DCC and 009 is not too dissimilar to mine.
Should anyone feel strongly that this should not be the case I suggest that they express their views directly to KATO- don't forget that Mr Hiroshi Kato is (or at least was) a member of our Society so I'm sure could be contacted via our Membership Secretary - rather than complaining on a forum Mr Kato may not be a member of.
VERY dissapointed with this announcement- i'm sure i read that this loco was going to be DCC compatable.
At my age and with my eyesight,i'm certainly not risking buying and then doing irrepairable damage by trying to fit a chip so-sorry, no sale, I'll save my cash and buy a bachmann 'Britomart' when they are available. :'(
Quote from: JulienW on November 09, 2021, 14:16
One of the main 'selling points' of DCC is the ability to run multiple locos on the same bit of track.
Given the vast majority of narrow gauge railways run a 'one loco in steam' policy I'm at a loss to see why that would make DCC a necessity for an 009 loco.
Yes, some aspects of DCC - sound for example - are nice to have but I suspect that for a large proportion of 009 modellers "DCC or not" isn't going to be a deal breaker for these locos, especially given how easy it is to wire a chip in to a chassis not designed for one.
Coming back to the subject of this thread - the Peco / Kato Small England Locos for those who have forgotten - let us not forget that KATO are a Japanese company who are primarily aiming at their own domestic market. My feeling is that given the small size of much Japanese accommodation the layouts these locos will be destined for will be small, one loco in steam operations rather (like the majority of home based Japanese layouts?) than the narrow gauge empires sometimes found in the UK, and quite a number are probably going to end up static in display cases. This being the case why on earth would KATO go to the effort and expense of fitting onboard DCC jiggery pokery that most of their target audience will not need, nor want to pay a premium for.
All Peco are doing is offering some technical expertise. As far as I am aware they do not have any financial stake in the project other than lining themselves up to be the main (soul?) UK distributor, and to be honest I suspect that their assessment of DCC and 009 is not too dissimilar to mine.
Should anyone feel strongly that this should not be the case I suggest that they express their views directly to KATO- don't forget that Mr Hiroshi Kato is (or at least was) a member of our Society so I'm sure could be contacted via our Membership Secretary - rather than complaining on a forum Mr Kato may not be a member of.
yes- but not really helpful if your layout is already fully DCC!
Quote from: Pete Williams on November 25, 2021, 13:26
VERY dissapointed with this announcement- i'm sure i read that this loco was going to be DCC compatable.
At my age and with my eyesight,i'm certainly not risking buying and then doing irrepairable damage by trying to fit a chip so-sorry, no sale, I'll save my cash and buy a bachmann 'Britomart' when they are available. :'(
I now that some DCC systems allow one to run a single analogue loco as 'Loco 0' (my digitrax system does). It may not be all that beneficial to the motor though.
Equally I'm sure there will be someone out there who would be willing to hard wire the chip in for you (try your local 009 Society area group?) even if a modest fee was involved...
Quotestill wouldn't do it with any system
I'm dubious about it too.
My large 2-8-0 Victoria with a large 5 pole skew-wound open frame motor made a noise like the turbo generator running at full chat - I assume as the armature vibrated slightly with the AC current. Who needs a sound chip!
The small can motor Dapol 2-6-2 chassis run in a similar way expired when the magic smoke was released... :'(
Quote from: JulienW on November 09, 2021, 14:16
One of the main 'selling points' of DCC is the ability to run multiple locos on the same bit of track.
Given the vast majority of narrow gauge railways run a 'one loco in steam' policy I'm at a loss to see why that would make DCC a necessity for an 009 loco.
Have experimented with DCC I came to the conclusion that I prefer the way that locos respond to a controller when wired for DCC, especially really old ones. Whether it is worth the expense is a different argument that I am still having with myself.
Quote from: JulienW on November 09, 2021, 14:16
My feeling is that given the small size of much Japanese accommodation the layouts these locos will be destined for will be small, one loco in steam operations rather (like the majority of home based Japanese layouts?)
I agree but it still surprises me that DCC has not taken off in a society that I normally associate with high tech gadgets. I would have assumed that they would love the idea of controlling everything from a tablet or phone.
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on November 26, 2021, 14:33
Quote from: JulienW on November 09, 2021, 14:16
My feeling is that given the small size of much Japanese accommodation the layouts these locos will be destined for will be small, one loco in steam operations rather (like the majority of home based Japanese layouts?)
I agree but it still surprises me that DCC has not taken off in a society that I normally associate with high tech gadgets. I would have assumed that they would love the idea of controlling everything from a tablet or phone.
The other side is the national stereotype of being very traditionalist. One video that sticks in my mind is of a modeller taking a 'layout' out of a carefully crafted wooden case, assembling it from individual pieces of track and lineside accessories, running some trains and putting it away again. It had all the hallmarks (to my Western eyes) of a tea ceremony. Every piece of track, scenery and stock had its purpose-designed box or slot in the case.
Also they seem keen on controllers that mimic certain prototype equipment.
(https://www.traintrax.co.uk/thumbs/300x300/images/user/30-050618161453.jpg)
Playing up the national stereotype shamelessly, it would not seem out of place if it came with a pair of white gloves. :)
A ZTX DCC command station had a similar vibe, but I think it is a very specialist interest.
QuoteHave experimented with DCC I came to the conclusion that I prefer the way that locos respond to a controller when wired for DCC, especially really old ones. Whether it is worth the expense is a different argument that I am still having with myself.
I did say "a necessity" in my post. I can see advantages using DCC (sound for one thing) and then there is also the personal preference of the individual...
Quote...but it still surprises me that DCC has not taken off in a society that I normally associate with high tech gadgets. I would have assumed that they would love the idea of controlling everything from a tablet or phone.
I must say that's a somewhat different association than I have, but then having had rapidly approaching 40 years continuous membership things have changed in the last few years.
As this is a thread about the Peco/KATO Small England locos perhaps further discussion about the pros and cons of DCC, or the traditionalism or not of railway modellers should be continued in different threads?
There seem to be some issues with some of these. Got mine the other day, the cab was loose, no great problem. I put it on a test track and it was reluctant to move but when it did the crank pin fell out. I found it and put it back but still very poor running which seemed to be related to the tender. Not wishing to fiddle too much more I rang Peco.
They were very helpful, as always. It seems some have been dropped resulting in loose cab, crank pins and chimneys (Yes mine was loose as well) although they had not heard of any running issues.
They are going to take it back at their expense (I didn't buy it from them but all the retailer could offer was them returning it to Peco).
If anyone has one do check the crank pins are properly pushed in; if it pops out it may be difficult to find!
IMO it is a very nice model, I'm guessing the drop has done something to the tender pick up which is a shame.
Thought I should update the above. Loco returned by Peco in a few days with no charge, everything fixed and now runs very well. Excellent service from Peco.