Modelling Traffic Patterns

[Graeme Dunbar]

Talking of coal transportation, ship to NG, this rather excellent photo popped up on the "opposition":

http://ngrm-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3402
Image in ngrm-online linked from:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/RussellP_photos/0n30%20Coal%20Car/WMRCoalCar.jpg

[rhobat bryn]

Yes that's a very interesting photo.  It's the first time I've seen the use of caskets on a rope and tackle to transfer coal from ship to wagon.  When I spoke to a guide on a sailing schooner, it was his view that the coal would have been transported in sacks on the ship and manhandled ashore by the crew.  But it left me wondering when did coal being carried in bulk on ships begin and being loaded in bulk onto wagons begin.  I think this photo suggests a transition phase between the two.

However I think that a trip to the National Waterfront Museum in Swansea is called for.

[garrywhiting]

Yes that's a very interesting photo.  It's the first time I've seen the use of caskets on a rope and tackle to transfer coal from ship to wagon.  When I spoke to a guide on a sailing schooner, it was his view that the coal would have been transported in sacks on the ship and manhandled ashore by the crew.  But it left me wondering when did coal being carried in bulk on ships begin and being loaded in bulk onto wagons begin.  I think this photo suggests a transition phase between the two.

Are you absolutely certain that's what happening? It could be that the ship is being loaded.

[rhobat bryn]

Are you absolutely certain that's what happening? It could be that the ship is being loaded.

Hmm, good question.  I assumed from the angle of the casket on the left that the coal was being poured into the wagon but it could be that the casket is being used to shovel coal instead.  A moot point ...

[tedp]

What we are seeing is two baskets being employed for coal handling. They are each shackled to two runner wires on opposing pairs of derricks, one runner on a derrick slung over the quay, and another on a derrick slung inboard. The rearmost basket is empty and they seem to be waiting till the men at the other one have finished. The caption on NGRM says the coal wagons are used on bunkering duty.

I think the baskets are filled in the wagon, then hauled inboard on the connected runners and emptied over the engine room coal bunker chute. This usually had a small hatch on the main deck.

A very interesting photo, but this is typical for steamship working, not for sailing ships. Bagged coal must have been the norm there, unless the sailing vessel had a donkey engine for cargo work. These weren't available on sailing coasters, only on big square riggers. Paying a visit to the museum to read up on this practice will always pay off though.

[garrywhiting]

What we are seeing is two baskets being employed for coal handling. They are each shackled to two runner wires on opposing pairs of derricks, one runner on a derrick slung over the quay, and another on a derrick slung inboard. The rearmost basket is empty and they seem to be waiting till the men at the other one have finished. The caption on NGRM says the coal wagons are used on bunkering duty.
I think the baskets are filled in the wagon, then hauled inboard on the connected runners and emptied over the engine room coal bunker chute. This usually had a small hatch on the main deck.
A very interesting photo, but this is typical for steamship working, not for sailing ships. Bagged coal must have been the norm there, unless the sailing vessel had a donkey engine for cargo work. These weren't available on sailing coasters, only on big square riggers. Paying a visit to the museum to read up on this practice will always pay off though.

Thank you, Ted, for your confirmation. I  thought that it was the ship being bunkered, and not the wagons being loaded.

[rhobat bryn]

What we are seeing is two baskets being employed for coal handling. They are each shackled to two runner wires on opposing pairs of derricks, one runner on a derrick slung over the quay, and another on a derrick slung inboard. The rearmost basket is empty and they seem to be waiting till the men at the other one have finished. The caption on NGRM says the coal wagons are used on bunkering duty.

I think the baskets are filled in the wagon, then hauled inboard on the connected runners and emptied over the engine room coal bunker chute. This usually had a small hatch on the main deck.

Many thanks for that, Ted.  Your expert knowledge has saved the day once again.  However I'm curious as to the development of sailing ships, particularly those used in the Western seaports, and which ships were used for what purposes.  Secondary sources are a bit few and far between.  I've been able to get hold of a book called "The Brig 'Susannah' of Aberdyfi" which charts its history for the first half of the 19th century until it was lost on the rocks just outside Aberdyfi.  The basic rule seems to have been slate out and grain in; but I really need a good day out where you can pour through the records and move from source to source to get a more complete picture.  A little post-Christmas project perhaps.

[tedp]

Expert knowledge? I'd rather call it an educated guess, as I'm only certain of post-WW2 shipping practice. May I suggest you look at East Coast sailing colliers as well? Some light may be shed on coal cargo in sailing ships. Similar practice may have been the norm on the Welsh coast.

http://www.scarboroughsmaritimeheritage.org.uk/ascarboroughcolliers.php
http://www.lostbrig.net/latest_news_2011.html

An extract from the latter website says the following, suggesting sailing colliers carried coal in bulk, not in bags:

Definition of 'Collier' from... The Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea 2006.

Collier, a vessel in the 17th and 18th (And 19TH S.G.) centuries which carried coal in bulk. These collier brigs, as they were called, carried 'sea coal' from the northern east coast ports of Britain to London, and from other ports to other destinations. Loading and discharging arrangements were both primitive and the amount of coal carried was very small, though it sufficed for domestic requirements during the sailing era. A typical collier brig could carry about 300-400 tons of coal, unloading it into lighters moored alongside, by a system known as 'coal whipping'.

Coal whipping suggests the use of a 'whip' on a yardarm - a light runner through a single block used to haul light loads of coal from the hold. They may have used baskets much like those in the New Zealand photo. The 'whip' must have been manually powered - a few men could haul a light load up from the hold, with a steering line to keep it clear from the hatchway, then this would have been let go so the load swung outboard over the lighter.

Edit: there is a print showing 'coal whipping' here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/B000RODLS2/ref=dp_image_text_z_0/280-3203588-6460245?ie=UTF8&n=11052681&s=kitchen

From the print it seems they used a whip to haul the coal from the hold using some kind of bucket and a chute to tip it into a barge alongside.

[rhobat bryn]

Collier, a vessel in the 17th and 18th (And 19TH S.G.) centuries which carried coal in bulk. These collier brigs, as they were called, carried 'sea coal' from the northern east coast ports of Britain to London, and from other ports to other destinations. Loading and discharging arrangements were both primitive and the amount of coal carried was very small, though it sufficed for domestic requirements during the sailing era. A typical collier brig could carry about 300-400 tons of coal, unloading it into lighters moored alongside, by a system known as 'coal whipping'.

Coal whipping suggests the use of a 'whip' on a yardarm - a light runner through a single block used to haul light loads of coal from the hold. They may have used baskets much like those in the New Zealand photo. The 'whip' must have been manually powered - a few men could haul a light load up from the hold, with a steering line to keep it clear from the hatchway, then this would have been let go so the load swung outboard over the lighter.

Edit: there is a print showing 'coal whipping' here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/B000RODLS2/ref=dp_image_text_z_0/280-3203588-6460245?ie=UTF8&n=11052681&s=kitchen

From the print it seems they used a whip to haul the coal from the hold using some kind of bucket and a chute to tip it into a barge alongside.

That's a very useful insight Ted.  I keep forgetting that a lot longer was taken in the loading of freight in those days, as they had the time,  so I suspect the crew would think nothing of discharging a bulk freight using a method of hauling light loads.  The time taken would far outweigh the hard labour of having to do it all by hand.  On a slightly different point, in the South Wales ports the principle was coal out and grain in.  Presumably the holds would have to be thoroughly washed down before the new shipment was loaded or am I imposing 21st century values retrospectively?  Anyway, I shall report back after my visit to Swansea.  I think we'll need to open a new theme on Dockside Freight Loading and Unloading.    ;)

[Graeme Dunbar]

You've certainly caught people's imagination here Rhobat!

Searching Google for images comes up with a few things. I typed in "coal sailing loading" and one photo was of a sailing boat being loaded in Swansea here:
http://www.swanseadocks.co.uk/North%20Dock%20&%20New%20Cut%202.htm

Unfortunately this is "loading" and I guess you want "unloading". Found this (surprisingly late date!)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishmaritimemuseum/4745151021/
The extended caption is interested, but it mentions that dreaded pu**er word! OK it is not a sailing vessel, but I guess the unloading method used may be applicable.

Edit:
How about this if you want to go really industrial!
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wholesale-prints.net/MAA1873/MAA1873504.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.old-print.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi%3Fitem%3DMAA1873504&usg=__cFIuKt2H2eyOteqEPcaL3paR1QY=&h=850&w=1242&sz=93&hl=en&start=30&sig2=tB-YDKQHf8ShBE026Tur-g&zoom=1&tbnid=r6oDi6ZCNvI9kM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=150&ei=gFTwTvKtBISP8gPhhrWkAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcoal%2Bunloading%2Bfrom%2Bsailing%2Bships%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1G1SMSN_ENUK458%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1

And again:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/det/4a10000/4a18000/4a18300/4a18384r.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/det1994016029/PP/&usg=__ljcBlPjb3Bo9qzYv5Mnw3CK6YC4=&h=640&w=513&sz=76&hl=en&start=68&sig2=lqcmtp4xFd5-9snUjgmVow&zoom=1&tbnid=qEccsEGG7-obmM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=110&ei=nFXwTrSYF9Sd8gO74qi3AQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcoal%2Bunloading%2Bfrom%2Bsailing%2Bships%26start%3D60%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1G1SMSN_ENUK458%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1

Google "coal unloading from sailing ships"

[rhobat bryn]

Many thanks for those references, Graeme.  They were very intriguing.  I also came across a mid 18th century "trade card" kept at the British Museum which seems to illustrate exactly what Ted is describing.  The ship is in the background with the lighter in the foreground and a coal-heaver carrying caskets on his back across a plank to the dock where a horse-drawn cart is waiting to transport them away.  This would seem to represent the basic model of unloading coal from sailing ships.

www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/pd/t/trade_card_of_philip_frachard.aspx

Later, as Ted suggests, whipping replaced the manhandling onto the lighter and, when ships were able to dock, replaced the lighter and the manhandling.

I'm beginning to have doubts about what I was told about coal being transported in sacks.  Wouldn't coal merchants have been the ones to bag the coal?  And wouldn't that be because it made delivery more manageable for the coalman and, where required, more dust-free for the customer?

You've certainly caught people's imagination here Rhobat!

Well, it's caught my imagination too, Graeme.  The way things are going I'm going to have a model of Bae Illtud (Illtud Bay) and its port, with a narrow gauge railway in the background for scenic effect!

Another area of research includes the unloading and storage of grain at dockside warehouses.  This is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to Vol 3 of Wild Swan's GWR Goods Services by Tony Atkins which will look at the handling of freight at GWR docks, due to be published in April of next year.

[Graeme Dunbar]

Of course I've lost now,   ??? but I did come across another forum where they were discussing a similar topic and carrying sacks on the backs of men was mentioned.

[rhobat bryn]

Of course I've lost now,   ???

Apologies Graeme.  I'm getting caught up in the excitement of it all (I know, I need to get out more).

but I did come across another forum where they were discussing a similar topic and carrying sacks on the backs of men was mentioned.

Do you have a reference for that Graeme?

[Graeme Dunbar]

What a difference two letters make. I meant to type "of course I've lost IT now", referring to the link.

Luckily I found it again in the Internet history on my notebook:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214935

See the reply by "VO5" on that page.

(I would not take any of my knowledge in things nautical too seriously as my primary source is "Hornblower"  ;D )

[rhobat bryn]

Many thanks Graeme; that's a very valuable insight.  The sacks therefore were used in the same way as caskets.  Given that this was accepted practice, I now need to find out which was used (though it could have been both) in West Wales.

(I would not take any of my knowledge in things nautical too seriously as my primary source is "Hornblower"  ;D )

It could be worse; you could have said 'Popeye'.    ;)