new loco for cliffhanger

[invercloy]

Very nice, John.  I was going to say how did you get them so quickly before I read the rest of the post...

Have you ever tried the crafty computer paper transfer method?  Is Rob K doing the lining and weathering again?

[pilotfriend]

This time I am going with Chris Meach of Golden Arrow. Only because we wish to compare results and styles.

I tried this Crafty paper and found that I was insufficiently crafty to understand the technique and got nowhere with the whole thing. The instructions need to be written for geriatric morons such as myself! I still cannot programme the video!

I still think it would be a wonderful way of making complete panels for loco lining.

We require 8 Glenthorne trains to operate Cliffhanger as a standalone layout.  

1. Garratt



2. Baldwin



3. Ben Halliday



4.  No 1



5.  No 6



6. No 7 ( the new Mikado )

7. Glenthorne Railcar



8. railcar 302 (now modified to 2 car and redesigned to get to the harbour

plus Peckett spare

JdF

[tedp]

The side view of the Mikado somehow reminds me of a Cape gauge South African 12R (which is of course a 4-8-2). Small wheels, low footplate and a bogie tender. A solid chunk of an engine which originally was also used for coal haulage. Very atmospheric.

[Tigger]

Without wishing to seem picky, is it me or is No 7 suffering from the same drawback as the L&B Mallet?  Loads of wheels and motion just where there should be a firebox and ashpan?  I should love to see the GA of both locos!

[Hobby]

The firebox is behind the rear axle?

[tedp]

 ???  The firebox and ashpan of no 7 are behind the coupled wheels. The trailing truck is under the cab, supporting the firebox end as it should.

[pilotfriend]

ash disposal is clear


ash disposal aft of rear drive wheels and is typical of Mallets of this type





Ted and already explained No7.

In the case of the Kitson Meyer and No7, the ashpan and all detail is fully modelled.


the ashpan is clearly visible

I never design a freelance locomotive without having its GA ratified by a friend at Blodge.

[tedp]

Apart from the type with a trailing truck under the firebox like mainline American articulateds, Mallets are notorious for having a narrow and shallow firebox. The grate has to be over the rigid coupled wheels. The 2-6-6-2 compound diagram shows such a loco.

In standard gauge or outside frame narrow gauge engines they often put the rearmost coupled wheels under the rear end of the (sloping) grate, with a gap between the rear and centre drivers. In these locos the grate can be made wide enough. The prototype photo of the 0-4-4-0 with the cylinders reversed shows a long coupled wheelbase and outside frames expressly for this purpose.

On a rigid or semi-rigid loco fitted with a trailing truck or bogie, the firebox can be hung behind the drivers without affecting stability.

Garratts, Fairlies and Meyers don't suffer from this problem as the grate always drops down between the articulated units. In particular the Garratt has a short, fat boiler with a huge grate area. This means combustion gases will travel slowly through the firetubes, resulting in an efficient high output boiler.

[Tigger]

Understood Gents - thanks!  I think I'll stick with my Vertical-boilered Shay if I want plenty of grunt, phenominal acceleration and a low top speed...!

[pilotfriend]

Why lots of driven wheels?

This is twofold.

1. Much more reliable operation and usually, the articulated locos do not require a companion car (to pick up current). This is essential for automated working.

2. My layout, due to the need to compress the world to fit my workshop, has strong grades (1:20). This requires either double heading or big engines to pull the long trains often seen on CG. The stiffest grades are found just before the East Lyn Viaduct on the main line and below the viaduct on the branch line.

The rework on the County Gate trackplan has allowed prototypical train lengths (for holiday specials)



This is a typical double headed train (8 coaches + van). I have always tried to demonstrate that 'main line' narrow gauge operation existed on some lines. You would be surprised how heavy my rolling stock is. The drawbar power required is huge. Even going down hill, a light loco can be pushed past the home signal for the station by the moving train behind! No 7 has a few less wheels, agreed, but it has traction tyres which make up for it. The tender acts as a companion car.

Interestingly, loco performance parallels the L&B figures for grades of 1:50.

A single MW can haul 4 coaches + van
double heading MWs 8 coaches + van
Mallets
River Avon  6 coaches + van
River Brue 7 coaches + van

I consider these long trains (goods equally) an excellent antidote to the usual 009 image of a bashed Pug with two shorty coaches requiring hand pushing at regular intervals. ;D

JdF

[tedp]

Pugbash with 8 on. About max load for 1 in 35 gradients.
No pushing required, and no companion cars needed either... It's not the DCC bothering you, is it? (run for cover)  ;D  ;D
http://www.009dutch.nl/cdr/main/foto/operation/08.jpg

Scale length train. No DCC - sound mixed in.  8)
http://www.009dutch.nl/archive/2009/cdrvideo/loaded%20coal%202.wmv

[pilotfriend]

"About max load for 1 in 35 gradients."

A Dutch layout with 1:35 grades?

impossible! ;D ;D ;D

Those are diddy little light wagons!

The Netherlands is the only place I would be prepared to go fell walking on my scooter :D

"It's not the DCC bothering you, is it?"

Yes. The digital messages are very low voltage indeed and can easily be missed with poor conductivity. You need not duck for cover Ted! Messages from a controller are constantly being given. Those from a computer are only given once (like 'Hello Hello')

[tedp]

I guess I had that coming!

I really do have in in 35 gradients, most on long straights behind my backscene. I don't think I'll match your 8 or 9 bogie coaches for train length, but maximum train length in the loop at Rae Bridge is about 1 metre. Dunalistair can handle more.

8 wagons for a four-wheel saddletank would seem about a scale load on such gradients. Bigger engines can take more, sometimes I need a banking engine. And the wagons in the photo are small, but most of my stock is rather bigger.

Your gradients are rather steep due to compression. No wonder your trains can push the engine past the signals. However, my hidden curves are very sharp for the same reason. But I use compensated gradients - the curves behind my backscene are flat. Makes life much easier.

To put things into perspective there were narrow gauge railways running a 'main line' like service like the L&B, but these cannot be compared to small scale operations like the Corris or the Talyllyn. There, a saddle tank and two coaches would be the norm. And the tank might need the occasional push, even in reality.  ;)

[pilotfriend]

"but these cannot be compared to small scale operations like the Corris or the Talyllyn. "

And that's a fact. I well remember early Talyllyn with David Curwen trying to get Sir Haydn back on the rails yet again after having slipped through on the bad track. It was also a long time before I ever modelled a Meyer after an awful very wet day with a 'Monarch' failure.

[Tigger]

An interesting thread, gents and a spectacular photo John!  As you know my own railway normally operates the equivalent of three bogie coaches (plus the occasional goods vehicle for a bit of variety) and although I'd like to run four, it's all dictated by the loop length.  There is also the question of proportion - four would be a little long proportionally.  Operationally, the trains normally take about a minute to cover the fifteen or so feet between the stations, a speed which looks about right.  Hmmm... we're veering off the original subject - the 'mik' and the Mallet still look nice.