Fixing lead loading

[Tim Parsonson]

I have some 'liquid lead' i.e. very fine lead peletts to use for weighting a loco body.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best way to secure the lead in the body.

[Hugh Norwood]

cyano-acrylate (super glue)

Do not use PVA as the acetic acid given off during curing will react with the lead causing it to expand

[Derek Clark]

I hope UHU is ok because that is what I have used!

[JulienW]

Time for the "Science Bit".

When PVA (Poly Vinyl Acetate) adhesive cures it releases small amount of Acetic Acid. It's probably a lot less than you would put on your chips (Acetic acid is what's in vinegar) so will not do you any harm, but when PVA is used to stick in lead ballast weights the acid reacts with the lead to form Lead Acetate which wants to take up much more volume⁽¹⁾ than the metallic lead, causing the lumps to swell. If you have just stuck the ballast to the underside of a wagon floor it shouldn't be a problem, but if you have stuffed it into a closed box - like loco side tanks or boiler - with no space to expand into the lead/lead acetate mix can split the boiler, tank or whatever it has been stuffed into, even if it is a soldered metal kit or scratch build.

So to avoid any problems either avoid using lead⁽²⁾ or use a different adhesive⁽³⁾ on the lead.

(1) I did do the calculations based on a full conversion of a mass of lead to lead acetate and whilst I can't recall the numbers it was quite a considerable increase in volume per unit mass of lead...
(2) Alternatives include fine steel shot (I think that is what "Liquid Gravity" is), nickle plated lead shot (apparently commercially available), and I've even got some granular tungsten...
(3) I've known people use thin superglue, or one could mix a paste of 2-part epoxy (like Araldite) and the lead shot. I suspect that an oil-based paint could also be used as a binder for lead shot.

Hope that helps

Julien

(B.Sc. (Hons) Industrial Chemistry, M.Sc. Instrumetal Chemical Analysis)

[Tim Parsonson]

I'm so glad I asked as I would probably have tried PVA.

Thanks for the chemistry lesson as well.

[B.Meldon]

It should be noted that solid lead weighs more if used in the same space as 'liquid lead'.
Obviously, it needs to be shaped to fit, and as with all lead it is best to avoid contact with the material.

I secure the solid lead I use with super-glue.

[Neverbetter]

I was disappointed to find that liquid lead is magnetic. 'Solid' lead has the advantage of being non-magnetic which may be important if using auto-uncoupling magnets along with lightweight wagons.

[Hugh Norwood]

I was disappointed to find that liquid lead is magnetic. 'Solid' lead has the advantage of being non-magnetic which may be important if using auto-uncoupling magnets along with lightweight wagons.

technically "Liquid Gravity", which is a product name, is magnetic (as it is iron based). As far as I am aware Liquid Lead is made from lead and so should not be magnetic.
[/end pedant mode]

[Graeme Dunbar]

It crossed my mind some time ago to use the tungsten putty coarse fishermen us as weights, but getting on for  20 x  the price/weight as liquid lead, then perhaps not - but being reusable and mouldable it could well have a use when say setting up locos to add weight and adjust axle loading.

If you are feeling flush, then -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bank-Tackle-Tungsten-Fishing-Terminal/dp/B073V6C5YF/ref=asc_df_B073V6C5YF/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=340092233909&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17255065972793833283&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007293&hvtargid=pla-697587280760&psc=1

[Neverbetter]

technically "Liquid Gravity", which is a product name, is magnetic (as it is iron based). As far as I am aware Liquid Lead is made from lead and so should not be magnetic.
[/end pedant mode]

That's useful to know as I'd assumed the 'liquid' products were now all based on iron pellets. I tried a while ago to buy lead shot in a tackle shop and they told me in no uncertain terms it was no longer produced.

[Barry Witteridge]

You can still buy "shot" in fishing tackle shops it's just not made from lead, your shop were obviously trying to be clever, they should have offered you the modern equivalent, and made a sale!

[Hugh Norwood]

technically "Liquid Gravity", which is a product name, is magnetic (as it is iron based). As far as I am aware Liquid Lead is made from lead and so should not be magnetic.
[/end pedant mode]

That's useful to know as I'd assumed the 'liquid' products were now all based on iron pellets. I tried a while ago to buy lead shot in a tackle shop and they told me in no uncertain terms it was no longer produced.

Ah.. I was thinking about the products you get from modelling suppliers...

[Graeme Dunbar]

As a possible source of lead shot, Soft Dive Weights may fit the bill. I think they are indeed lead, e.g.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Diving-Shot-Weight/74004/bn_7023443260

[Derek Clark]

If you go to a tyre fitter they will give you a bunch of old lead weights for free and you can snip bits off until you have the weight you want.

[Hobby]

Think you'll find they use zinc or steel weights these days...