Coupling Systems

[rod335]

I think it is fair to say that with regards to 'Standards', whether they be for wheels, couplings, whatever, being laid down by the Society, you may well have a very long wait. Whilst the Directors of the Society feel this would be a good course of action, the cold fact is that, whatever was laid down, the vast majority of 009 modellers would continue to do their own thing regardless. Wheel standards and back-to-back measurements are, for the most part, dictated by what will run through Peco points. Couplings usually reflect what was fitted to the first item, usually a locomotive. acquired. And, in reality, I am not sure there is any pressing need for universal standards, as not much inter-layout running occurs. And, again in reality, if you really want to run an item with incompatible couplings, it is a simple enough job to make some sort of match vehicle.

On a slightly different tack, with regard to couplings, to my mind, the couplings we should favour, whatever type, are the ones that are least intrusive visually. But I realise that opinion will not find universal favour!

[Graeme Dunbar]

Yes, I don't think we want to go down the road of the 009 Society getting embroiled in defining standards. On the other hand, documenting what there is available would be very useful.

It's a good point Rod makes about visual appearance. I think that is where the compromises creep in. Unlike standard gauge where loading gauge and size is more uniform, 009 covers everything from tiddly locos and skips to some monster locos and bogie stock. With bigger stock, bigger, more robust couplings (maybe magnetically operated, with delayed uncoupling and just possibly more reliable) are possible and relatively unobtrusive, but the options are rather more limited with skips and similarly sized 4-wheel stock.

Elsie, Micro Trains, Hornby etc. couplings are identical within reason within their ranges. On the other hand  there are so many variations on loop and hook type with differing materials even for the loops - wire, very thin photo-etched brass, relatively chunky plastic - so even couplings that are of the same general type vary quite widely.

[jimowers]

I have found something like this to be of personal use...

1. Does it work? = Yes, then fine I must have done something right, end loop!
2. Does it work? = No, then fiddle until it does work and = yes, end loop
3. Does it work? = No, then fiddle again and then repeat from step 1

What I suppose is that since we all have our own layouts and, in many cases, our personal stock to run on them then do any standards really matter that much?

I have developed my own methods for couplings as others have their own I am sure. I use the Coupling Height Gauge (GAG1 from Dundas Models https://dundasmodels.co.uk/webstore/index.php/hikashop-menu-for-module-108/product/5519-coupling-height-gauge). I normally set my coupling height to 6.0mm (I am sure others will disagree!). This seems to work for most of my needs.

Because we only tend to run trains round and round, the coupling hooks are removed from locos and from one end of each item of rolling stock. This gives me the best results (I am sure others will disagree!).

The only other thing that I have done is remove any Peco couplings and replaced with Greenwich on my rolling stock, mainly because the coupling hooks in my experience are better (I am sure others will disagree!).

You can tell from the way I am writing this that if you ask each OO9er about couplings then you will get a different and probably conflicting story as you may have found already by reading this far!

[George Surridge]

As a newcomer to 009, I attended the superb Kegworth Convention and there was a workshop session about couplings. I was delighted about this as I was finding couplings to be the most complex, difficult, aggravating, frustrating aspect of 009. The workshop covered various different types of couplings, how to make them, how to fit them, and so on...I came out an hour later finding couplings to be the most complex, difficult, aggravating, frustrating aspect of 009.  And not much has changed since then!
Geo S
Norfolk

[rod335]

It has just occurred to me that the original poster is probably too young to remember the 50s and 60s where there were two completely incompatible coupling systems in commercial 00, the Hornby/Peco type and the Triang type, which is what is effectively the norm nowadays. Notwithstanding this we all seemed to manage perfectly well in those days, opting for one or the other. And wheel standards differed vastly between the two main brands as well, not to mention the early distraction of Hornby being exclusively three rail until about 1959. So, in all honesty, I am not sure why there is so much confusion and complaining about matters currently. Is it just that most people expect to be spoon fed now? Someone even went so far as to complain they felt 'let down' because the couplings on the Bachmann Baldwin, a model which to be fair we could not even have dreamed of five years ago, are not apparently instantly compatible with Peco couplings. If that is the case, why not get a needle file and MAKE them compatible?

[MickT]

Coming up to the boil nicely Rod, safety valves starting to bounce.

;D

[Steve Facknell]

Could't have put it better ref spoon feeding.

[John Murrell]

Surely the answer to the Bachmann Baldwin coupling issue is to simply switch out the manufacturers standard item and insert a Peco one (sans loop). Ok, the coupling becomes a tad longer but works perfectly. this is something that I have done with all my RTR stock with no issues at all.

[Steve Facknell]

Whilst on the subject of couplings, has anyone else had a Minitrains Decaville Progress which has the rear coupling glued very close to the body?
What have you done to alleviate this?

[Stan Williams]

George,

On Wednesday I will be seeing the gentleman  who ran the workshop on couplings at Kegworth in 2013.

I will let him know how successful it was !!

Stan.

[WALLSHIRTS]

Anyone else using Meridian choppers?
Mal.

[George Surridge]

George,

On Wednesday I will be seeing the gentleman  who ran the workshop on couplings at Kegworth in 2013.

I will let him know how successful it was !!

Stan.

But it did teach me one good lesson...just don't overcomplicate the issue.  KISS I think they call it!

[Elmgate]

Anyone else using Meridian choppers?
Mal.

I did at one time, however, the lack of remote uncoupling, and the fact that they are not as reliable (in my experience!) as even the worst of the alternatives, has led me to use them only as "within rake" permanent couplings in a, very, few applications.

[David Harrington]

Inevitably, the debate has drifted somewhat.  Just for the record, what I was suggesting was NOT standardisation.  I also made it clear that I'm a beginner in 009 and was simply pointing out the value (to beginners) of some sort of document listing what's out there, the pros and cons, and what's compatible with what.  I also volunteered to assist (assuming that the task would benefit from one of you 009-ers longer in the tooth than me, to supervise).  Initially, my suggestion gathered some support.  But then more recent posts have rubbished what I never asked for or proposed.  I agree with (most of) the rubbishers, but I've no idea where we go from here!

[Graeme Dunbar]

If you are referring to your statement:

"What this modeller needs is some sort of guide to the variety of couplings available and how they interface (or not) so he can standardise across his motley fleet."

Then yes, it is worth pursuing.

Barring the obvious incompatibilities (Elsie - Micro-Trains  - chopper - hook-and-loop) most are varieties of hook and loop and I guess hook and loop couplings are all compatible after a fashion.

I think that is where the issue lies. It is the fettling, fine adjustment and awareness of the gotchas. Number 1 is consistent coupling height and beyond that there are things to look out for such as where couplings are mounted on wagon ends compared to ones mounted on bogies or pony trucks and there are issues with coupling and uncoupling on curves as opposed to straights.

I suspect there is no definitive answer "A works with B but not C" because there is such a wide variety of layouts. That does not mean to say that gathering all the disparate pieces of information together is not worth while. Looking through it, a reader will hopefully find something that helps. That is why I suggested a Wiki-like approach.

Here is a hook and loop variant I'd not come across before:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/009-Gauge-Couplings-x-10/323272473783?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D50546%26meid%3D66f1183ec96a4a78b7b4747fb2e38e1e%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D323259001125%26itm%3D323272473783&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850

Does anyone know it?