Glen Ogle

[gtmspyder]

Just a bit more done today, fiddly scene dressing, a few bushes and a bit of grass, an odd tree, and an odd rock or three.





Regards,

BrianT.

[invercloy]

The improved shape certainly looks much improved, Brian. I like the way you've continued the shape of the bark up into the foam.

Thanks for the latest email by the way, I'm busy for the next few evenings but will try and get back to you asap.

[gtmspyder]

Well, I know it's been quiet in Glen Ogle of late, but I've had a spell of couldn't be arsed, brought on by finding the Kato chassis could not climb the Glen with it's attached coach due to slipping.

I tried replacing the four wheels on the coach to the much freer running Kato bogies, but to no avail, more weight is needed in the loco bodies over the Kato chassis, and at this point, lethargy set in, doesn't take long I'm afraid in my case.

So, what have I been upto?

I decided to add wires to the track, which of course is a lot more difficult when it is mostly sceniesised.

Luckily, I had fitted point motors, but can't remember what I did about the frog wiring.

So, I will add a little more detail later.

Regards to all,

BrianT.

[gtmspyder]

So, to continue with the forced re-plan of controlling the layout, having put the radio control on hold, while I work out what to do with the radio controlled loco's I assembled.

I decided to wire the layout with a cab controlled analogue system, using a central control panel, showing the layout diagram, picked out with LED's, point control using DPDT ( double pole double throw) switches, operationally wired using the so-called one wire system, (Which is actually a two wire system in reality) which uses 2 diodes and a capacitor to each point to throw the switch blades, and at the same time as switching the point blades, indicate on the track diagram by colour changing LED's, which way the points are accessing, using the second pole of the DPDT switch.

This spare pole of the DPDT switch could be used as a frog polarity switch, but I have decided to use it as a point route indicator on the control panel, and if I have to wire for frog polarity switching, I'll fix some point operated switches adjacent to the points.

The control panel is constructed as follows.

First the track diagram was drawn out and copies made to allow me to fiddle with section breaks etc. then one copy was protected by a laminated cover to be used on the control panel.  This was not entirely successful as the laminated sheet took on a wavy look which is purely the lamination process, and not my crap drawing of straight lines.



The basis of the panel was a plywood box which originally contained a selection of water colours, and made an ideal A4 size base to house all the electronics and switches that could be mounted on the mimic diagram with all the works hidden inside the box.



The diagram was glued to the box lid, and all the diode positions drilled and fitted with the 3mm diode holders, and the five DPDT switches fitted at the point junctions, with a further four DPDT switches fitted at the four track feed positions.

The darker grey stains around some of the diode plastic mounts is where I used some very thin Cyano glue to secure the diode mounts in place and the glue ran into the paper diagram inside the lamination cover.



The picture below shows some of the wiring components, the DPDT switch, the 3mm plastic diode holders, the pre-wired single green diodes which came mounted with a suitable resistor and tails for 12 volt operation all ready fitted, and the bare twin colour, green/red three connection diodes, which had to have a resistor fitted to the centre common and wiring tails fitted.  These will be mounted at each point divergence, and will show green for the selected route, and red to the unselected route whichever the DPDT switch position is selected.



The more Eagle eyed reader will have noticed at the base of the track plan sheet, the reference to Balquider , this is because when I came to save the drawing to computer memory, I had a mental block and instead of typing in the Glen Ogle layout name, I typed in Balquider, which is the name of the junction station back down the line, which I had modelled as an EM gauge layout many years ago, Doh. ::)

I told you I wasn't well didn't I? :D

That'll do for tonight, I have to take more photo's before the next episode.

Regards,

BrianT.

[Hugh Norwood]

I decided to wire the layout with a cab controlled analogue system, using a central control panel, showing the layout diagram, picked out with LED's, point control using DPDT ( double pole double throw) switches, operationally wired using the so-called one wire system, (Which is actually a two wire system in reality) which uses 2 diodes and a capacitor to each point to throw the switch blades, and at the same time as switching the point blades, indicate on the track diagram by colour changing LED's, which way the points are accessing, using the second pole of the DPDT switch.

This spare pole of the DPDT switch could be used as a frog polarity switch, but I have decided to use it as a point route indicator on the control panel, and if I have to wire for frog polarity switching, I'll fix some point operated switches adjacent to the points.

.

It might be a bit late now, but you can get three-pole double throw switches that are similar in size to the dpdt switches, just a bit wider. These would give you: 1) point motor control; 2) power for route direction indicators; 3) frog polarity bypass.

[gtmspyder]

Thank you for that Hugh, but I had the DPDT switches in stock, and SWMBO is getting a little twitchy about how many little parcels keep arriving from EBay, especially when the card bill arrives. :o ;D

So to continue:-

To a view of the control panel as it stands today, along with sundry wiring paraphernalia.



You can see from the above, most of the LED's are now in place and are lit.  The power for all this is supplied by the Gaugemaster controller
for the loco's, points and LED's.
The Gaugemaster is held to the control panel with adhesive Velcro pads, and feeds the track 12v DC, via the four DPDT section switches, and the LED's via the smoothed 16 volt ac supply and the LED voltage dimmer control, fixed solidly to the control panel's opposite corner.

You will also note the 25 core cable and "D" connector which carries the electrics from the panel to the layout, I have cut the double ended, male/female plug terminated cable to leave a long tail that is terminated at the cut end, within the control panel box, so that the control panel can be moved around and will be plugged into a gender related socket on the layout, which can be duplicated at other positions around the layout to allow front or rear control as required by circumstances.

The short cut off end will eventually be used as a baseboard joint inter connector, again with a gender related plug/socket fixed to the baseboard.

The number of cables required to feed the various functions along the layout, will be paralleled along the length of the layout to allow the control panel to be plugged in at the various positions required.

You may note a white chocolate block connector temporarily connected to the short splayed out ends of the 25 way cable, this is so I can test the various cables for power carrying capacity and the various colour coding of the cores much easier than crawling under the baseboard trying to identify the colours on the rather thin, 7.02 cabling.

Regarding the current carrying capacity of this cabling, I have no problem with the power delivery to the loco's, and the points are thrown with ease.



The inside view of the control panel, shows the plethora of wire associated with all the functions I am incorporating.



The layout shows a series of bus bars across the control box, the supports for these are cut from the white chocolate box connectors glued into place, the bus bars are from 2.5 mm cable stripped out of twin and earth mains cable.

At the bottom of the picture, the outer coloured sheathing has been stripped from these two bus bars to bare copper, because of the number of soldered joints that have to be made for the LED feeds, and are fed from the smoothed 16v Gaugemaster supply  via the dimmer control, to protect the diodes from any overvoltage, despite there inbuilt resistors.

Next up above the many diodes, are a series of six gang chocolate blocks which support from the bottom up:-

The first two of the blocks have there copper connectors cores removed to allow any of the 25 way feed wire cores to be supported from left to right without fear of any shorts between cores during there travel from left to right across the control box, to there destination circuit point.

The middle two of the six block carry blue and brown insulated bus bars which have a 2,200 Mf capacitor across one end, and the positive/negative outputs from an encapsulated four diode rectifier at the other end, fed from the 16v ac output of the Gaugemaster controller, to give a 20v smoothed dc feed to the point motor circuits, which is required for the so called single wire point motor operating circuits,, which have for each point motor a 2,200Mf capacitor and 2 diodes in parallel back to back to operate the two point motor coils using DPDT switches, which means that the motors have permanent lives to the coils without burning the coils out.

(I take no credit for this methodology of point motor operation, this was found for me by Hugh Norwood, from a posting on one of the forums.  Thank you Hugh).

To jump ahead of myself, you can see along the top of the picture, the five 35v 2,200 Mf capacitors, fixed in place again, using the chocolate block connectors to hold the capacitors, and accept the bus bar via DPDT positive feed, and the on-going switched wire feed to the back to back point motor coil mounted diodes, hence the term "single wire" feed, although the two other ends of the point motor coils are connected to a common return, which in turn is connected to the negative bus bar back at the control panel, thus technically a two wire operation for the points.

To return to the bus bars, you do remember them don't you?, sorry, any way the top pair of blue and brown bus bars, are connected to the Gaugemaster 12v dc output, and feed the track via the four DPDT section switches, placed around the circuit diagram..

All the outputs are fed via the 25 way "D" plug cable to the base board.

A closer view of the internals.



The loop of white 6 core cable alarm cable, is the link to the Velcro mounted Gaugemaster, to allow it to be lifted clear of the fixing position should this be required at some time.



This view shows the short end of the 25 way multicore cable, connected to a length of chocolate box connectors so that I could test each point position operation, with the temporarily wired Peco point and motor, which also shows the two diodes connected back to back across one end of the motor coils, with the red positive feed connected to the diode connection point.  the black wire links the two point motor coil free ends to the circuit negative.   Each circuit point switch was connected and tested in turn.



This picture shows the same components against a different back ground to perhaps make it clearer, and also shows, the reed switch and magnet components, which will be used at the rear of layout double tracked train storage area, to detect trains held in short sections off scene, which will be released one at a time on the down and up travel as required.  This facility has been wired, hence the yellow wire shown connected to the single test reed switch, but awaits the single pole, push to make switches yet to be fitted in the holes currently left blank on the circuit diagram.



And finally for tonight, a picture showing components and tools used to produce the control board, and my wife's work in progress Christmas card list and assembled cards.



Regards,

BrianT.

[gtmspyder]

Not yet shown wired, the storage sidings to the left rear on the track plan, have two dead sections per loop between points, one pair in the loop for right hand rotation trains, and one pair in the adjacent loop for left hand rotation trains.   The dead section will show red if occupied by a loco or train, held in store, which will turn to green when a normally open push button is depressed, to allow the stored train to move forward.

The detection will be by reed switches set between the track
.
So at the start of a sequence, the layout can have four trains made up and available, two for clockwise rotation of the layout, and two for counter clockwise rotation.

The anticipated sequence of events for one operating session is:-

All track as viewed from the front is empty.

One button  on the anti-clockwise storage section is pressed, allowing a train to enter the viewing side, and proceed to or through the bottom left hand station, known as Lochearnhead, head up and over the viaduct, and enter the up, anticlockwise loop of the top station, known as Glen Ogle.

While this is happening, the second storage button on the anti clockwise loop storage is pressed, and the second stored anti-clockwise train moves forward into the vacated loop, automatically stopping, and leaving the rear anti-clockwise loop vacant.

The first button of the clockwise storage section is pressed, and a train will leave it's storage and proceed off scene, up the back of the layout to appear on scene to the right of Glen Ogle station, and enter the clockwise loop of the Glen Ogle station.

During this sequence, the second clockwise storage button is pressed allowing the second clockwise train to move forward into the just vacated clockwise storage section and come to an automatic halt, leaving a clock wise loop vacant and ready to accept a train coming down the front and over the viaduct, through Lochearnhead station, and into store, ready for the next sequence.

The anti clockwise train still at Glen Ogle station, can continue it's perambulations, around the top loop, and down the rear off scene, until it enters the vacant storage loop where it will come to an automatic stop.

And thus the sequence can continue, ad-infinitum.

Ultimately, the unused point at the top right of  Glen Ogle will come into play, if I ever build the extension down to Killin and Loch Tay, but that is a story for the future.

I hope that helps explain what I an trying to achieve.

Regards,

BrianT.

[B.Meldon]

One comment I will make is that using the same type and size of switches for both point and section controls can be a bit confusing.

We found many years ago that it is far better to use different types of switches for different functions on a panel. For example small toggle switches for the points, larger toggle switches for the section control and slide switches for any dead sections.

But this is just down to personal choice I guess.

Brian Meldon

[gtmspyder]

Hello Brian,

I have to agree with you, especially the switches for the station passing loop and the two storage passing loops which are quite short on the track diagram, and the short section between the station loop and the unused as yet spur for the Killin branch line, which bunches the switches close together, but I had intended putting different coloured shrink wrap over the toggles of the switches to denote sections and points, the storage release switches are N.Open push buttons, so no confusion there.

Thank you for your observations and continued interest.

Kind regards,

BrianT.

[Hugh Norwood]

You can get rubber boots that fit over the metal switch levers - this means you can colour-code the switches to make it easier to show which are point and which are track power....

[Harry Mantheakis]

I got some coloured rubber boots from Squires.

[gtmspyder]

Thank you Hugh and Harry, I'll have a look.

Regards,

BrianT.

[clayliner]

Very impressive, Brian - it looks more like a telephone exchange to me but what do I know about electrics?!

David.

[gtmspyder]

Hello David,

There is more to come but I haven't done the photography yet, I keep changing my mind as to what features to incorporate, but it now sports seven relays to change a green to a red for the LED's that indicate stored or station loop trains parked. 

The relays work inside the control panel, could have been done by using changeover reed relays on the track, but that would have meant more wiring on the base board, so I opted to use the panel mounted relays.

Totally unnecessary of course seeing as I can see all the layout apart from the rear storage sidings, but I enjoy building control panels.

More pictures when I have finished the wiring.

Regards,

BrianT.

[gtmspyder]

Here is your update if anyone has been following this thread, those that have read my recent post regarding on-picture explanations will see that I have failed miserably, so you will have to make do with my longwinded off picture explanations and find the various described items yourself.

You may remember we last saw the control panel it was in this state.



I have moved on a little and finished mounting the diagram LED's and the midsection isolating release push switches, two in each leg of the rear storage roads, and one in each leg of Glen Ogle passing station.  These switches are a simple press to make type  which supply the track power to isolating sections just long enough to hold and accommodate the engine of any passing loco.



The toggle switches nearest the junction positions, switch the points, and change from red to green  to indicate the set route as the next two pictures demonstrate.




Turning to the inside view, this shows the addition of five 12v single pole changeover relays,  (12v SPCO relay), these are used to change the dual colour LED's that indicate a loco's occupancy of the short stop sections in storage sidings and stations from green to red. The relays are switched by in track reed switches operated by loco mounted Neodium magnets.



A closer look at the relays shows the wiring, and to aid identity of the LED colours, the CO contact terminals are wired in the appropriate colours, red and green, this helps for future fault finding if required.



I could have used Changeover track mounted reed switches to achieve the same results but this would have required an additional wire ,  from each of the five reed switches, back to the control panel, and I've only got twenty seven to play with :o To test the circuitry, I assembled this test rig and connected the appropriate cores form the 25 way cable that will ultimately connect the control panel to the base board,




All the circuits tested out.



All the point circuits operate a connected point, all the point switches show the selected route, and all the reed relays operate the correct coloured LED.  All I have to do now, is wire up the stop section release switches, and that will complete the control panel.

More wiring later.

Regards,

BrianT.