Radio Control

[Graeme Dunbar]

I am sure that should radio control of trains take off, multiple locos and sound will not be far behind. For example there is no reason why the DCC command stream shouldn't be carried over wireless links, but it would require a combined radio receiver and DCC decoder or a means of interfacing the two. It could be a bit of a challenge in 009 at the moment.

Something like this exists in DC-Car http://wiki-en.dc-car.de/index.php?title=Introduction_of_the_DC-Car_System except here the transmission medium is infra-red.

In fact I guess you could fit DC-Car to trains and either chase the train around with a remote control or put the IR emitters at suitable locations such as signals, sidings and platform ends. (I'm not sure if I understand the system; it may be possible to control cars over longer distances.) The anti-collision aspect of DC-car sounds interesting, though perhaps more suited to trams than trains.

[Frank]

Thanks John, glad you liked the way the loco runs, that for me was the revelation when I built it.

On the controllers, we think of them perhaps as transmitter and receiver but actually they are two microcomputers talking to each other.  

The one I showed you can only talk to one loco at once -in the jargon they are bound together.    You can bind it to another loco but this involves switching off one and switching on the other so would work eg in a fiddle yard but not on the layout.   The chip in the loco is about

[gtmspyder]

Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:01 PM


Having seen Frank's radio controlled loco's at the 009 convention, I decided to have a go myself.



I have ordered the Lipo batteries, switch, plugs and sockets, receiver and transmitter.



I am going to fit the radio control into a 3D printed Tram engine I bought at the convention, which is  designed to run on a Kato chassis.



I have opted for the three train controller kit, as this set up is to be used on my Glen Ogle layout, and I think three engines in steam will be quite sufficient for operational interest on the layout.



To make sure I have sufficient running time available, I am using a 300Ma hr battery, but this will not fit into the loco, so I am going to mount the battery into a permanently attached rake of coaches, the loco's are unlikely to do any shunting on Glen Ogle, which is basically only a train passing through a scenic diorama.



For the switch I have found a surface mount component that is very small, and only requires a finger touching a pad  somewhere to switch a circuit  on or off, so I am going to buy some brass buffers, and mount the wire from the touch pad to the buffers, so that I will only have to touch the buffer to disconnect the battery supply from the receiver, well that's the theory anyway.



Whether I am up to being able to assemble this little hotch potch of components into a workable assembly remains to be seen. :-$



Fingers crossed folks, I might be electrically trained, but that does not include the dark art of electronics, I only hope the instructions a very very clear. :))



More as I assemble the components when they all arrive.



Regards,



BrianT.

[gtmspyder]

The kits and bits have arrived from Hobbytronics and Deltang, so here we go.


I must point out that the success of this venture is NOT guaranteed, as my electronic skills are zilch.


I am fairly competent at soldering, I know to use heat-sinks where possibly required, and I can follow a circuit diagram, so provided the components are properly and clearly marked, I should  be able to follow the diagram.


Having said all that, I have bought a selection of resistors, as you do,  but despite me having a copy of the code colours, my eyesight is not good enough to identify the band colours, despite using a magnifying glass, and measuring there resistance with my multi-meter proves useless as well, so that's a good start.


I will as usual, post my progress, or lack of, with photo's, on here.


I have to report what is possibly all ready a problem, while taking the photographs to post on here, you will see I have plugged one of the Lipo batteries into the charger, just to demonstrate the three items of:-  power supply, USB lead, charger and battery connection,  As the plug of the Lipo battery, entered the socket of the charger PCB, there was a crack, and a smell of fried electronics, nothing is showing any obvious damage on the PCB, but I'm sure something has gone amiss.



Her is the connected combination, I can't see why this would have caused a problem, but I fear it may have, perhaps one of our electronic wizards can tell us.
I am thinking of contacting Hobbytronics who supplied the charger PCB and post this photo??



From Del Tang, I have purchased the transmitter and receiver kits. Here are the instructions supplied with the kit




Here is the transmitter kit hardware, I have opted for the controller that can control three separate loco's without having to do anything other than switch on the appropriate control.



Here are the electronic components.



Here is the box supplied to hold all the electronic gubbins, along with accurate templates for all the holes.



The template fits inside the box perfectly, a scriber pushed through all the marked centres, leaves an indent which can be used to drill the holes, I used a centre drill to stop the HSS drill bit wandering to drill the holes 6mm, I also used the pointed starter point of the centre bit to drill the second hole to stop the potentiometers, used for control, from spinning.



Using the centre drill to put in the small retaining holes seemed like a good idea at the time as it was still mounted in the pillar drill, but I made a mistake doing this, because doing this resulted in the drill bit snatching, and going straight through at the full size of 6mm, resulting in a rathet large peg retaining hole, whoops.  You can see the oversize hole to the right of the picture.




Here, the switches and potentiometers, are mounted in there respective positions, and the transmitter laid in place, not shown is the 9v PP3 battery, and the wires connecting the various components.  The watchmakers screwdriver is positioned simply to tilt the assembly for photography.






The inside view, again with the loose transmitter PCB module place inside.



Here is the tiny surface mount touch switch module that I hope is going to replace the battery on/off switch that is required to stop the battery going completely flat.  When wired correctly, and a wiring diagram is supplied, you only need a bare metal touch plate touching to switch the device on or off, so I thought a metal buffer on the loco or battery carrying coach would act as the touch plate, we will see if my skill level is upto it?



This is the combination of loco, and battery carrying Lilliput carriage along with the Lipo battery and Del Tang radio receiver, that will be the basis of my experiments for total radio control of rolling stock on Glen Ogle.




Well there we are, all the bits to make a three loco controller, I may find it easier to solder the wires to the components, with the components removed from there finished positions, we will see, but rest assured, all the steps will be photographed for you delectation.

Since writing this, I have contacted Hobby Tronics stating my perceived problem, I have received one reply asking for additional information, to which I have responded, but so far, have not received any return help, so I await there response.

Regards,

BrianT.

[Hugh Norwood]

Hi Brian,

I use a digital multimeter to confirm resistor values - I find the new resistors have the colour bands printed on a grey body, which makes it difficult to work out what the colours are. ALSO 2% tolerance resistors have one extra colour band which makes determining which end of the resistor to start reading them from a nightmare. Hence the multimeter. (I think you can get cheap digital ones)

Your problem with the charger doesn't sound good. It might be a case of acting thick and returning the items! Are you sure you didn't plug the battery in the wrong way round?

[gtmspyder]

Hello Hugh, the plugs and sockets on the battery and the charger PCB can only connect one way, so, provided the pos and neg of both appliances are connected to the same standard, then when I connected the new battery, to the new charger, nothing should have happened, but there was a definite crack, as in a capacitor being shorted out, and this was followed by a smell of burning, so I am sure that something has gone wrong.

Hobbytronics , when told of this, first asked what voltage the mains adaptor that fed the PCB charger was, suggesting that as the mains adaptor had a capacitor in it, (I presume as a smoothing component) if the mains adaptor was not the correct voltage for the PCB charger, maybe when I connected all the components together, the mains adaptor discharged it's capacitor into the PCB charger.

Now this was strange for two reasons:- 1) The mains adaptor was not plugged into the mains, and had never been whilst in my possession, it being taken straight from the box it was supplied in, and 2),Hobbytronics had supplied the mains adaptor, as far as I know, they only supply this one adaptor, and it was the correct voltage for the PCB charger at 240 to 5volts.

I have related all this to the Hobbytronics, who first came back with the capacitor discharge from a wrong supply component. They are now saying to plug all the components together again and plug the adaptor into the mains, and see if it actually does charge the batteries, I must say, it does not sound very scientific, but I will give it a try, with little expectation of a successful out come, I'll be back later if I am not serving tea and bicckies to the Fire Brigade. ;D with the results of the test.

Regards,

BrianT.

[petersmith1942]

you are a brave man Brian but waiting with bated b reath......
Peter Smith

[gtmspyder]

Not really brave Peter, a 3amp fuse and an ELCB were protecting things, the fire brigade bit was for humour.

So with fingers crossed, I have assembled the components together again, and this time actually plugged in and switched on.

The LED lit, but the tiny surface mounted black square between the USB on the left, and the TSB socket on the right more or less burst into flames, but the LED stayed lit, and apart from smoking, the little surface mount whatever, just sat there, with no further incident.

I think we can assume that all is not well with the PCB charger.

The out put voltage at the TSB battery socket is 42Mv, the LED is lit whether there is a battery connected or not.

I am going to Email Hobbytronics again with this information and suggest returning the faulty component to them and see what they say.

Regards,

BrianT.

[Hugh Norwood]

Brian, I wasn't casting nasturtiums on your abilities - I realise the battery connectors should be polarised. but I have in the past seen the effects of someone who plugged a 15-pin PC screen connector in the wrong way round (you'd think it was impossible, but he'd done it!)

However... It looks like there's a fault with the charger - and now possibly with the battery, so I'd return the lot including the mains adapter - even if it has started working as it may develop a fault later

[gtmspyder]

Hello Hugh, it never crossed my mind that you were questioning my abilities ;) I am appreciative of any helpful comments from anyone, it's usually obvious when the comments are negative, and in any case, written words are rarely a substitute for face to face exchanges, which is why I always try to make clear, when I am trying to convey some information, by repeating the exact thing I am talking about.  It's always easy to type in shorthand if you don't like or are uncomfortable with the computer keyboard.

The above being an example of my rambling answers.

Regards,

BrianT. 

[gtmspyder]

For further information for anyone interested in the customer service of Hobbytronics.

Hobbytronics have replied:-  That's and odd one, because we test all of the chargers once they are
built. Send it back to us and we will replace it. If you can though, it
would be worth checking the output voltage of the PSU, just in case that
is what caused the damage.

Send it to

Hobbytronics Ltd
Ivy House
29 Beckside
Wilberfoss
York
YO41 5NS


I have tested the power supply as best I can, and assuming in the large USB plug, the two outer of the four available connections that can be seen are the two being used, there is 5.1v between them, I did not check the two inner connectors because you will appreciate, they are all very small, even in the large USB, and at 75 years old, my hands are not that steady, and I did not want to short across these pins, so I chickened out.

I hope this is of some assistance to Hobbytronics, and to members of the forum.

BrianT.

[gtmspyder]

Tonight I have made a start on wiring the transmitter.

The circuit diagram was first marked with some of the colours of the wires I was going to use to connect to the transmitter PCB module, red/black, green, yellow, yellow/red, yellow/black, green, blue, and white.

Black was to be used for all the  negatives/0 volt, and red for all the positives.

I did not have all the colours I required for this colour coding, so the yellow/red, yellow/black and red/black was achieved by felt tipping stripes around the base colours of yellow and red.



An easy way to get the colours and small flexible cabling to use, was from six core burglar alarm cabling which I happened to have from several burglar alarm installations I have done for friends and relatives over the years, this is multi stranded, very thin, and capable of carrying 2amp loading, more thane enough for our purposes.
If you acquire a couple of feet of this six core cable from any burglar alarm installer, the cores will easily pull out one by one from this sort of cut length.  There is an eight core version available which will give you two extra colours, but I have never used it, so I don't know what the other two core colours are.



The tools I have used for this job are shown here.



I decided to mount the PP3, 9v battery and the transmitter PCB on the underside of the lid, rather than inside the box with all the wires, potentiometers and switches as intended.  Deltang supply a flimsy piece of clear acetate or similar material, with which to construct separators for the battery and transmitter PCB.  This might be fine for the single control unit with only two potentiometers and it's three switches, but the three pot controller has four potentiometers, five switches and all the associated wiring, and it does get rather crowded inside the box supplied.  I was going to construct a couple of box seperators from 40th plasticard, but when I purchased the 9volt battery, as ever it came in it's shrink wrapped plastic case, which of course makes a perfect box to contain the battery within the controller, but it would be difficult, I thought, to fix this within the box base as intended, because there is no clear floor to glue to, hence my option of fixing to the underside of the lid.
I carefully peeled the clear lid from it's backing cardboard and tried it in place.



Thee lid has for protrusions that get in the way of mounting the clear cover towards the end of the lid, so I marked where they came on the flange of the clear lid, and using a hole punch, punched a hole so that the lid flange can fit down to the lids flat bottom, I decided to fix the clear battery lid by gluing one end flange to the controller lid, and use the protruding lugs that had to have holes punched for them, as a fixing point, by a method I have not devised yet.  I marked where the clear lid flange would come to on the box lid, and roughed this are up with a fibre glass pencil, and roughed the clear plastic similarly, then applied Evo stick impact adhesive and joined clear lid to black controller lid.







I made two cuts in the opposite flanged end to the hinge end and bent up sufficient of the clear plastic to allow the two button clip connector to attach to the battery.   So to replace the battery in future, the two retaining fixings, not yet designed, will be undone, allowing the clear plastic to hinge upwards, which will allow the battery to be removed and replaced.

I will purchase another battery, rescue it's cover, and mount in a similar fashion to hold the transmitter PCB.



I now started on the actual internal wiring of the various components which were all ready mounted in the box base.  I started by making a harness to connect all the components to the negative pole.  Because all this wiring is connected to fixed components, I use single strand cable which allows the cables to be dressed and squared around the components.




I then started to attach the colour coded flexible wires which will go the lid mounted Transmitter PCB.



And that is as far as I have got for tonight, It's taken me as long to type all this up as it has to carry out the wiring I have just described, and it's way past my bedtime.

Tarrah for now,

BrainT.

[gtmspyder]

Right , to continue with the wiring.

I started making the harness for the positive side of the components and this is the result.  I formed a bus bar with a 1.0 mm red core from some twin & Earth, so that I could form it into a good solid bus-bar to which I could attach all the resistors and link wires and try to not finnish up with a box full of loose wires.



As I attached each wire, I ticked it off on the circuit diagram, remember, I am doing this by copying, and not because I know what the circuit actually does.  If the circuits do not work, I will not have a clue what's wrong.



You can see the 1.0mm bus-bar along the bottom of the box, and the various components radiating from this.  The assembly does not look very pretty, and does not look like the interior of any mains switch gear control panel that I used to be familiar with, I just hope it works.



I have gathered together all the flexible connections from the control box interior ready to attach them to the radio transmitter PCB that is to be mounted under the lid.



And connected the battery connection press studs, to the bus-bar red for the positive, and the on/off switch in the negative bus bar assembly. Switching the on/off switch on, resulted in the LED in the switch lighting, so that's a result then isn't it?



I have ordered some connectors to be able to connect the flexible cables to the pin outs on the Transmitter PCB, and I have to solder two, of the provided resistors to the PCB, but unfortunately, I cannot read the rating markings on the damn resistors, and they were not identified in the way they were supplied,  so I need a bigger and better magnifying glass to try and decipher the rating colours.

Well, that's about it for tonight, and it may be some time before I get back to you all on this particular aspect of Glen Ogle, because I got a letter from the Hospital today, calling me in for the replacement hip operation on Wednesday next, the 16th of October.

Apparently I will be in Hospital for three or four days as a routine, and then six weeks before I am properly mobile again, if all goes to plan, so we will see what happens.

I have no doubt I will put in the occasional appearance in the whose on line section of the forum in the coming weeks, but I don't expect to be doing anything constructive. ;D

Regards to all for a while,

BrianT.

[MickT]

I hope the operation all goes well Brian.

Best wishes
Mick

[petersmith1942]

sincerely hope it goes well Brian
The trouble you are going to to make it possible for an electrical illiterate like me to have a go is inspirational and very much appreciated
Peter Smith