N gauge (2mm) scenery?

[Elizabeth Meecham]

A newbie query. Does anyone do N gauge (ie 2mm) layouts using narrow gauge trains? I was going to do the usual 4mm scenery but as I'm limited for space I wondered about going 2mm so I can get more interest in? I love the narrow gauge trains and lots of beautiful scenery but I do realise that the scale would be wrong (I'm not sure I mind unless it would look silly, I'm not planning on exhibiting). I'm less interested in a 'snapshot' layout 009 layout. If I did go 2mm should I go for the normal N gauge track or the narrow gauge track? Thank you.

[Alan Feldon]

Well n gauge track is the same width as 009 track for a start  , so you would still end up with H0 or 00 scale  . .people wanting a smaller scale would use Z track . Lots of modellers working in 009 make micro layouts which fit into a small area if space is at a premium .Alan

[clayliner]

Hi, Eiizabeth, and welcome to forum!

Some interesting questions... as I'm sure you realise, 9mm gauge track (whether N gauge 'mainline' or narrow gauge) would scale out at a gauge of 4'6" in 2mm scale, which is technically narrow gauge (i.e. anything less that standard gauge, 4'8") but only just!

Z gauge track is 6.5mm gauge which works out at 3 foot-something in 2mm scale, so more narrow gauge, though maybe better suited to Irish or 'Colonial' prototypes.

Problems of working in such a small scale (2mm/ft) are the relatively limited availablility of track, rolling stock and locos/chassis and their generally higher cost than N gauge/4mm scale n-g items.

I hope these thoughts are helpful and apologies if I've misread your questions!

David.

P.S.  You can get quite a lot into a small space with a 4mm narrow gauge layout!

[post written while Alan was writing his!]

[Hugh Norwood]

Just to muddy the waters, some model narrow gauge in TT scale

"Hobby" of this parish is one! 

[Graeme Dunbar]

If space is limited then the nature the layout could make a big difference. Choosing small industrial type locomotives and rolling stock should mean they do not dominate a small space as would large locos and bogie rolling stock. It could still look as if they are travelling through landscape rather than occupying it completely

Another thing that might help is the way in which the layout is presented. If it is an open layout viewed from a high elevation so that the whole layout can be seen at once then that might emphasise its smallness. On the other hand with proscenium arch type presentation the landscape can made to look as if it extends beyond the limitation of the frame and the restricted viewing angle helps when forced perspective is used. People even manage to use trompe l'oeil and mirror effects to suggest an expanse of scenery.

Depending on the space available and how you are able to use it, something else that might help is to build a long thin end to end shelf type layout rather than a continuous run. In a similar vein, being able to build and L shaped layout into the corner of a room can mean that the railway disappears out of eyeline to the left and right and the depth of the corner behind the curve gives space for some landscape depth, perhaps including forced perspective. (The Rev Awdry wrote about this in Railway Modeller for the Skarloey Branch in the 1960s.)

I think there are a lot of parallels between layout and garden design. Many of the same 'tricks' can apply - view blocks, not running parallel to the boundaries. Similarly photography and composition - rule of thirds and so on.

However you say you are not keen on 'snapshot' layouts. If you are looking to model a railway in rolling landscape and a helicopter viewpoint in a small space then unfortunately 4 mm scale may not be the best choice.

[JulienW]

Perhaps to look at this in a slightly different way (not helped by railway modellers often using the terms 'Scale' and 'Gauge' interchangeably) most narrow gauge modelling occurs by someone picking one of the commercially supported scales and taking the track used by a smaller scale.

One of the more popular combinations is 009 (00 scale on the 9mm gauge track from N scale) but others exist that are a smaller scale and/or take up less space.

You could stick with the 00 / HO scale used within the membership of the 009 society but combine it with Z gauge (6.5mm) gauge this would give a prototype gauge of essentially 18" in 00 scale and almost 2' (600mm) in HO scale. The latter is commercially available in the form of the HOf sets sold by Busch, and some have used these in 00 scale too.

You could use TT scale, either the 'traditional' 3mm:1ft or the 'new to the UK' 1:120 scale (about 2.5mm:1ft). Combined with N gauge track (9mm) it would be an option for 3' or 1 metre gauge (full size) and with Z gauge track (6.5mm gauge) 2'6" / 760mm / 750mm gauge lines could be modelled. Whist the TTn3 / TTm would allow the use of 009 / N track and chassis. TTn30 / TTe would be a little harder as Z gauge chassis are a bit harder to come by. With both options I suspect there would be more kits options for European outline models, though I believe Allen Doherty at Worsley Works does a small range of scratch aid kits for Irish prototypes in 3mm scale.

Moving down to N scale you are only really left with Z gauge track, and the combination is used for 3' and 1 metre prototypes. Peco have done a small range of white metal kits using Marklin Z gauge chassis, but from what I've seen they are not the easiest chassis to get good slow running out of - so think trains moving through the landscape rather than shunting in a station.

Finally there is T scale / gauge, with models using 3mm gauge track and a scale of 1:450. I suspect that shunting opportunities would be limited and most of the powered stock seems to be bogie DMUs and diesel locos so a 1.5 mm : 1ft scale Quarry Hunslet may be difficult, but I can see it may have potential - a 4mm scale model of a 10 ¼ inch gauge model engineering line perhaps? 18" gauge line in N scale?...

Perhaps the way to look at this is to let us know how much space you have as a small train, say a 4 wheel industrial diesel with a train of 3 skips, could be more 'in the landscape' than a South African Garratt heading a rake of 6 or more bogie open wagons (even if they are both hauling limestone) if both layouts were the same size...

[Elizabeth Meecham]

Lots of helpful info here, thanks. Need to do some pondering. I really want narrow gauge trains on 9mm track. I just need to decide if I am happy with being out of scale with the buildings etc (as it's just for me) or do a different sort of layout - as some suggested.

[Graeme Dunbar]

The locos and rolling stock could have a bearing. If you want to make use of the crop of new 009 RTR locos then it will be scenery that works with that. Going down in scale there are HOe models that run on the same gauge track and buildings and so on are marginally smaller at 3.5 mm to the foot rather than 4 mm. Going down to 3 mm to the foot gives 3 ft gauge but there is less choice, but could be an option if you are keen on scratch building.

Mixing scales could give some odd effects. If the locos and stock are 4mm to the foot and the buildings are 2 mm to the foot how big are the people? The trains could look huge with tiny people in them or the buildings could look like Wendy houses with giants or adults in a play park. Forced perspective with smaller scale scenery in the background can be very effective but placing even HO and OO scale objects side by side can look odd.

There is a good discussion on the effect of scale in Roy Porter's book. Unfortunately much of it deals with larger scales but still a good book.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Porters-Model-Buildings-Masterclass-Modelling/dp/1859150632

[Elizabeth Meecham]

Umm yes. Really helpful thank you. Will look at the book.

[B.Meldon]

2mm scale buildings will not look correct with 009 (4mm scale) locos and rolling stock, this would be worse on a on a small layout where the buildimngs will be close to the trains.

If you want to model narrow gauge railways in 2mm scale the choices you have are rather limited in regard to locos, and rolling stock available and no track with correct sleaper spacing is available.

Z gauge track at 6.5mm gauge works out as 3 foot 3 inch gauge in 2mm scale. But the sleepers are too small and too closly spaced for 2mm scale and would look wrong.

[Elizabeth Meecham]

Ok, I've decided that it's the 009 trains I really want so I have simplified my layout plan and will do the 00 scale buildings etc. Thanks for all the advice.