A foamboard baseboard

[Chester 009]

Thank you for all the helpful replies to my questions about foamboard and adhesives. I'm trying to decide between a c. 50 mm deep simple wooden frame with a foamboard top, or spend £65-£80 on a laser cut plywood kit for one (to be about 900-1000 mm x 450 mm). The problem for me is the depth of these laser cut baseboards - most are 100 deep, which when added to the height of even shallow scenery makes the layout more difficult to carry through doorways and on stairs.

[B.Meldon]

Thank you for all the helpful replies to my questions about foamboard and adhesives. I'm trying to decide between a c. 50 mm deep simple wooden frame with a foamboard top, or spend £65-£80 on a laser cut plywood kit for one (to be about 900-1000 mm x 450 mm). The problem for me is the depth of these laser cut baseboards - most are 100 deep, which when added to the height of even shallow scenery makes the layout more difficult to carry through doorways and on stairs.

Why not cut your trackbed out of 1/4 plywood and then built a simple wooden frame to support this track bed?

This way you can model features that are below track level, like rivers, streams ponds etc. This will also give you a good solid base for your track and you can tailor the height to your own needs and the supporting frame so that it avoids any under track items like point motors etc.

Yes, it will take pre-planning of the track plan and also more work on your part, but it should work out a lot cheaper than purchasing pre-made boards and would give a far more realistic looking layout without the 'flat world' appearance, so many layouts that use pre-made baseboards have.

[Justin Phillips]

I have built a foam board baseboard to see what I could do with it. I am building my first 009 layout and it will be a micro layout due to space / time / cost etc. The layout size is 790mm x 580mm, and weighs in at 844 grams. It is very light and very stiff and strong.

The board is made of the following:

• 5mm foam board (2 x A1 sheets from Hobbycraft)
• 50mm insulation foam bought from Wickes: https://www.wickes.co.uk/Kay-Metzeler-Super-Plus-70-Expanded-Polystyrene-Insulation-Board---1200mm-x-600mm-x-50mm/p/253855
• Cardboard corner protectors from packaging (actually used by Hattons when they send boxes of track)
• Gripfill non-solvent adhesive to stick the sides to the insulation foam (it is what I had left over from a DIY project): https://www.wickes.co.uk/Evo-Stik-Gripfill-Solvent-Free-Adhesive---350ml/p/227910
• Hot melt glue to stick the foam board together

The total cost of the foam insulation and foam board came to £18. The other bits I had already.

[Graeme Dunbar]

Excellent. The corner protector idea is brilliant - ding resistance where it is needed most. Unless one plans to stand on the layout that is about the only real drawback I can see with foam baseboards for small to medium portable layouts.

I've had mixed success with grab adhesive (on both occasions left over from DIY plasterboard jobs). The first stuff, 'No Nails' (not No More Nails) was good, almost silicone glue like but the second, generic unbranded, just 'grab adhesive' was fine for the DIY work but was almost gritty and set like rock-hard Polyfilla.

[Justin Phillips]

I've had mixed success with grab adhesive (on both occasions left over from DIY plasterboard jobs). The first stuff, 'No Nails' (not No More Nails) was good, almost silicone glue like but the second, generic unbranded, just 'grab adhesive' was fine for the DIY work but was almost gritty and set like rock-hard Polyfilla.

I used the non-solvent version of Gripfill and that sets like Polyfilla and is sandable. Whether it is the best adhesive for this or not remains to be seen, but given the board will not be under any stress it should be fine.

[B.Meldon]

I have never personally liked any kind of 'soft' trackbeds. I have found that it makes it very difficult to fix anything down securely like point motors and even the track. Because of this I always use a ¼ (6mm) plywood track bed.
Obviously lightweight soft type boards are ideal on a layout for areas that do not have track.

This does require some forward planning of the layout so the wooden trackbed can be cut out to the shape you want the track. But I have found that this extra work is well worth it in the end.

But this is just my oppinion.

[cp.409067]

I have never personally liked any kind of 'soft' trackbeds. I have found that it makes it very difficult to fix anything down securely like point motors and even the track. Because of this I always use a ¼ (6mm) plywood track bed.
Obviously lightweight soft type boards are ideal on a layout for areas that do not have track.

This does require some forward planning of the layout so the wooden trackbed can be cut out to the shape you want the track. But I have found that this extra work is well worth it in the end.

But this is just my oppinion.

*

When the baseboard top surface is not several inches thick, are there not two ways of considering this matter?

The alternative, and I would suggest much easier method, is to use foam core board for the whole of the baseboard surface and then add on the underside small solid plates where point motors need to be fixed.

I did this when building my "Pyn Valley Railway" layout in "O9" (see RM, Nov 2018, pp. 917-921). The area of the baseboard was 43ins x 18ins (1092mm x 457mm), and for each of the seven point motors (Hoffman) there was a simple plywood plate (nominal 6mm thick plywood) a couple of inches square under the baseboard. These were glued in place with PVA and the point motors fixed with small screws that protruded slightly into the thickness of the foam core board above.

As for the fixing of the track itself (mostly Peco "OO9") that was a simple three stage process.

[1]   Apply PVA glue to baseboard surface and hold track in place using push pins.

[2]   When glue dry remove push pins.

[3]   Subsequently apply ballast using dilute glue, water based varnish, etc of choice. This will provide a permanent fixing.


CP

[Justin Phillips]

I have never personally liked any kind of 'soft' trackbeds. I have found that it makes it very difficult to fix anything down securely like point motors and even the track. Because of this I always use a ¼ (6mm) plywood track bed.
Obviously lightweight soft type boards are ideal on a layout for areas that do not have track.

This does require some forward planning of the layout so the wooden trackbed can be cut out to the shape you want the track. But I have found that this extra work is well worth it in the end.

But this is just my oppinion.

*

When the baseboard top surface is not several inches thick, are there not two ways of considering this matter?

The alternative, and I would suggest much easier method, is to use foam core board for the whole of the baseboard surface and then add on the underside small solid plates where point motors need to be fixed.

I did this when building my "Pyn Valley Railway" layout in "O9" (see RM, Nov 2018, pp. 917-921). The area of the baseboard was 43ins x 18ins (1092mm x 457mm), and for each of the seven point motors (Hoffman) there was a simple plywood plate (nominal 6mm thick plywood) a couple of inches square under the baseboard. These were glued in place with PVA and the point motors fixed with small screws that protruded slightly into the thickness of the foam core board above.

As for the fixing of the track itself (mostly Peco "OO9") that was a simple three stage process.

[1]   Apply PVA glue to baseboard surface and hold track in place using push pins.

[2]   When glue dry remove push pins.

[3]   Subsequently apply ballast using dilute glue, water based varnish, etc of choice. This will provide a permanent fixing.


CP

It is a fair point but then I thought the same as you, that once ballasted, the pins and glue will hold it all in place. But even then if you were to use set track then the problem should not be that great, unlike flexi-track that will try and ping itself back into position, putting strain on the track pins in the foam. I have a mixture of both and want to try and use it up, so I guess I will encounter this problem...

I do plan to create a track bed of 2mm cork that I have lying around, which will be glued to the foam insulation, that will then create a better surface for the track and ballast to adhere to. But, all of this is a learning curve for me so it could turn out to be a mistake!

[cp.409067]

It is a fair point but then I thought the same as you, that once ballasted, the pins and glue will hold it all in place. But even then if you were to use set track then the problem should not be that great, unlike flexi-track that will try and ping itself back into position, putting strain on the track pins in the foam. I have a mixture of both and want to try and use it up, so I guess I will encounter this problem...

I do plan to create a track bed of 2mm cork that I have lying around, which will be glued to the foam insulation, that will then create a better surface for the track and ballast to adhere to. But, all of this is a learning curve for me so it could turn out to be a mistake!

*

To be clear I did not pin the track down - the push pins held it in place whilst the PVA glue set. The push pins were then removed. Subsequently the ballast ensured a more permanent fixing of the track.

On previous layouts with a plywood top surface, I applied 3mm cork sheet before laying the track. There seemed no point in doing this with a foam core baseboard surface. Before laying the track BOTH sides of the foam core board were coated with dilute PVA. Whilst this did not make the foam core board hard or solid, it did make it taught and minimal bracing underneath was necessary.

CP

[Hugh Norwood]

My layout baseboard is two layers on 5mm foamboard laminated together. The point motors are fixed on pieces of wood which are stuck to the underside of the board. Had no issues (so far - the layout is ten years old or so).

[Justin Phillips]

To be clear I did not pin the track down - the push pins held it in place whilst the PVA glue set. The push pins were then removed. Subsequently the ballast ensured a more permanent fixing of the track.

On previous layouts with a plywood top surface, I applied 3mm cork sheet before laying the track. There seemed no point in doing this with a foam core baseboard surface. Before laying the track BOTH sides of the foam core board were coated with dilute PVA. Whilst this did not make the foam core board hard or solid, it did make it taught and minimal bracing underneath was necessary.

CP

OK good to know, thanks. Was there a reason for removing the pins, e.g. aesthetics?

[cp.409067]

OK good to know, thanks. Was there a reason for removing the pins, e.g. aesthetics?

*

I say again that I used push pins. This is what I mean.

https://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/push-pins-100-pack/6434391000.html?glCountry=GB&gclid=CjwKCAiAuOieBhAIEiwAgjCvcluvrYrtqQNvjdYaZBQ_3C9BAg39pRVDs6aKnQ6HcQ

They were used for ease of insertion AND removal - the intent was never more than that they hold the track in position while the PVA glue dried. The "handles" stand about 0.5ins high.


CP

[Graeme Dunbar]

My layout baseboard is two layers on 5mm foamboard laminated together. The point motors are fixed on pieces of wood which are stuck to the underside of the board. Had no issues (so far - the layout is ten years old or so).

That sort of construction is used in foam model aircraft too. Some are even made out of 5 mm foamboard, though 6 mm Depron is more common.

http://depronfoam.com/products/ 

Things that impose an extra load or concentrate stress by having screw fixings  such as motors mounted on 'firewalls' are often laminated with thin ply.

(Hmm... anyone made a layout out of Depron?)

[Justin Phillips]

I say again that I used push pins.

I see, thanks for clarifying.