Bachmann 009 with DCC

[Peter Richardson]

I am considering the purchase of a Bachmann WHR tank engine with DCC fitted as I am like the idea of sound effects...little amuses the simple, I know!  ;)

My layout is a short circuit with passing loop and a few sidings operating on DC.

I enjoyed reading previous posts on DCC and would value any feedback on the following queries:

1. Is there a good DCC controller app you can purchase to use through phone or iPad?
2. I have two Fourdees engines and I know fitting a DCC chip invalids the chassis warranty.  However, if I were to proceed, can anyone recommend a firm which produces decoders with narrow gauge sound effects?
3. The second photo shows my control box (used for station and shed lights running off DC controller And to isolate one side of loop). If I move to DCC, can these continue to be used as present? The isolation switch I imagine would become redundant?

Due to the rather basic format of my layout, I don't really need DCC for controlling engines as usually only one if in operation at a time but I do like the idea of adding sound.

If it is possible to add sound without going down the DCC route, please advise.

Many thanks!

[Graeme Dunbar]

I'm not sure if there are "third party" DCC apps available for commercial DCC command stations. I think they use their own app.

The closest I can think of is to use an app to communicate using JMRI (a sort of common DCC software standard) WiFi throttle to a DCC command station.

I've not put that very well. I think what you want to do is look for a DCC system with a WiFi interface and work back from there. My information is out of date, but it used to be the "big" DCC systems that had WiFi interfaces. The smaller "starter" sets that would be ideal for a small layout tend (or tended) not to. The exceptions are things like SPROG:

https://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/

which is designed for direct connection to a computer. Another option is to go with completely home-brew electronics using something like an Arduino. The danger is that  is that the hobby becomes electronics and computing that just happens to involve model trains rather than the other way round! To a lesser extent DCC is a bit like that with the danger of the hobby becoming DCC not railway modelling if one is not careful.

(My information is well out of date having an early Digitrax Zephyr and an early SPROG which are more than adequate for driving a train or two around a small layout.)

[JulienW]

I'll try to suggest some answers to those in order, but DCC is a little out of my comfort zone - currently limited to an old Digitrax Zephyr and a coupe of chipped locos - but I do understand the attractions of DCC sound, having a Blackstone K27 (HOn3) that I've retrofitted a factory sound chip to!

1. Something to bear in mind is that afaik most DCC+sound locos should work on ordinary DC. The drawbacks are that they take a fair bit of current to get going, both the sound effects and the movement, and you may not get the 'full range' of sound effects as essentially those linked to 'functions', like the whistle, have no way for the analogue controller to work them. Assuming that is the case with the Bachmann Baldwin you may not need to go to the trouble of a DCC control system and (re)wiring to get it chuffing around your circuit, but to get the full "Bells & Whistles" you will need DCC control. Also, if you use any form of electronic track cleaner (like a "Relco" unit that puts out bursts of high frequency AC to 'blast' any dirt) this will need to be removed as it will confuse (at best) and could (at worst) fry the DCC chips, and given the cost of the sound chips this is something to avoid!

As GraemD points out most of the DCC apps for phones/ pads need to be used in conjunction with a command station to allow the device to 'talk' to the chips in the locos on the layout. My suspicion is that systems with such capablilty may be towards the top end of the (price) ranges or need to be (effectively) built from components. So unless you have a desire to control your layout from across the room (or from another room) with your iPhone/iPad perhaps saving money and/or time on a non-wireless off-the-shelf system might be the way to go.

2. Sound in DCC systems need a special chip that no only controls the motor but also has sound files stored in its hardware that it can send to an on-board speaker based on what commands it gets.  The Bachmann loco has this pre-installed (in fact all the Bachmann Baldwins have a speaker and can be fitted with the special sound chip which costs of around £100+), but with your Fourdees locos not only will a special sound chip need to be fitted but you will also need to fit a speaker. All this takes up quite a bit of space inside the loco body, and their may not be enough room!

Another issue is that the process of producing the sound files needed is quite involved and there are a very limited number of people producing the sound files, and these often need to be added to the sound chip (best done at point of purchase of the chip as I think it needs some specialist / expensive kit to get the sound onto the chip). Another limiting factor is that not that many narrow gauge locos have been recorded in this way. So whilst you may be able to get a sound chip and speaker into the fourdees locos it's unlikely that you'll be able to get sound files for a narrow gauge loco other than a WD Baldwin, (maybe Lyd as I've heard of some of these being sound equipped but I don't think they gave much details as to the source of the sounds).

3.When it comes to fitting a DCC controller to a (previously) DC layout it could be as easy as unplugging one controller from the tracks and plugging in the other.

With a DC (or Analogue) system turning the knob on the controller makes the motor turn faster or slower, and to allow a second loco to run the first will need to be isolated - in effect 'switched off' - from the controller on an isolating section. One way to look at DCC is that each chip acts as it's own controller, taking the AC current from the tracks and changing it to DC current for the motor in accordance with instructions ('speed up' 'slow down' etc.) sent to it via minute changes to the AC current. As instructions will be to a specific loco chip (unless all the loco chips have the same identification address) no isolating sections are needed, so if these are already present then they are all turned 'on' to allow the AC current and its signals to all parts of the layout.

When it comes to the lighting in your loco shed and station this may need a little more thought, as if they are using a DC supply they will not work on the AC output from the DCC controller, and it's possible that the information packets in the DCC controller's output may not be compatible with the lighting (either the lights won't work, or the DCC signals will not get to the chips, or both!). Therefore it's probably better to split the 'lighting' circuits from the 'control' circuits.

I hope that helps.


Edit: Details of the sound chip to fit to the Bachmann Baldwins are here (chip and sounds) and here (sounds to put on a chip). Here is someone who does sound files for the L&B 2-6-2T Lyd (towards the bottom of the page).

[Frank]

Another approach might be this:

There is at least one supplier of DC driven sound cards that do not require DCC.  See link below and scroll right down to the bottom of the page:

https://fosworks.co.uk/products

These are intended for large scale garden railways and so are too big to fit in 009 models but they can be fitted inder the baseboard with a conventional speaker and this works surprisingly well for small layouts.  I have tried it with radio control, one receiver in the loco and another linked to the same transmitter in parallel driving the sound card.

They have sounds linked to the speed of the loco,via the DC voltage supplied to the track; this needs setting up for each loco and so it seems to me that you end up having a sound card for each loco (as you do with DCC of course) with a simple switch to select the one for the loco you are running.

They also have "bells and whistles" that are driven from an infra red unit like a TV remote control.

The sounds are "generic" though, not tailored to a specific loco.

This may not be what you had in mind at all but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Frank

[Retiarius]

I use a Raspberry Pi 3B+ microcomputer (about £35) to provide my wireless DCC layout control. It is connected to a SPROG 3 DCC control interface (about £90j. The Raspberry Pi provides a wireless network that I connect to using two second-hand Samsung S3 mobile phones which act as the hand-held control units. The control software on the Raspberry Pi is JMRI and the JMRI site has links to preset 'disk' image that you burn to a micro SD card which you plug into the Pi.


For exhibitions I take 2 Raspberry Pi and 2 SPROG3 units to provide redundancy. The primary controller sits fits onto the back of a 19" monitor.

[B.Meldon]

Please note that if your DC analogue layout has been wired with a common return system for the track and all other electrical items, point motors, lights, etc. that basically halves the wires needed, it cannot be used with a DCC controller without first separating the track from the common return feed.

[Peter Richardson]

Many thanks to everyone for taking time to post replies.

I have decided to take the plunge and have ordered the Bachmann Baldwin tank. In worst case scenario, I can remove the chip and run it as a DC engine.


My main reason in getting into 009 two years back was to create a layout with some reasonably realistic scenes and run trains so if I find the DCC begins to dominate I will be quickly back to DC!

The initial plan is to keep my layout DC and use a test board to experiment on the DCC side of things.

Thanks again for your advice, I will put a post up on any progress made on this...

[Peter Richardson]

 thanks for your help on this, quick update...

Ordered engine (Bachmann WHR Baldwin with DCC sound) and began by running on DC. V impressed with smooth running and it has a selection of random sounds. Then borrowed a basic DCC controller but didn't go so well in that the only way to stop the engine at a desired location was to hit the red stop button and bring it to a sudden halt. Contacted Bachmann and they were v helpful and gave a quick response:

The acceleration and deceleration are set on the decoder primarily via CV's 3 & 4,the higher the value against the CV the stronger the effect of inertia.  The controller you have cannot change these CV's so 'it is what it is' unless you have access to a controller capable of writing to CV's.

It was fun playing with the sound effects but this controller only allowed the use of nine and to be honest I just preferred using the engine with it producing its own random sounds rather than having to constantly push buttons! I appreciate this may not be the real DCC experience given the limitations of the controller.

I got quotes for installing DCC decoders in my other engines and this combined with cost of decent controller has made me to decide to hold off any move to DCC for the meantime. My small layout is best suited to one engine in operation at a time so DC will suffice for the moment!

[clayliner]

An interesting combination - a Baldwin with Cl. 33 sounds!

David.

[A Squires]

Hi all I am a new member, I run DCC on my N gauge layout. I am starting a 009 layout, which will be DCC when I get some locos that are DCC ready or fitted. I found this post quite interesting and informative. I was wondering Peter if you are still about, would you like to give us all an update with the progression of your DCC adventure?
Many Thanks

Allan

[Hugh Norwood]

There a number of 009ers using DCC

I was going to point you in the direction of the Special Interest Group (SIG), but a quick look shows it to be.. well, er.. not very active here?

Hopefully someone will pick this up?