Peco Electrofrog points and DCC Concepts Cobalt motors

[Svend Beicher]

Hi folks,
Apologies if this has already been addressed...
I am a newbie, attempting to model the Corris line in 009.  Its a simple tail-chaser design, with a couple of run-around loops at the terminal stations (the return line is "hidden") and a few single track sidings.
I intend to use:
DCC control (NCE powercab controller)
Peco points SL-E491 (RH), SL-E492 (LH) & SL-E497 (Y)
DCC Concepts Cobalt point motors and S Levers.

Any advice appreciated on:
How to wire the points,
    esp. on how to solder the "dropper" wire from the frog as the hole in the plastic ties is tiny.
    Any other droppers required ?  (assume left & right continuous rails?)
Are insulated fish plates required, and where?

Which DCC Concepts point motor to choose (IP digital or analogue?)  I know it sounds obvious - but I've been advised I only need the analogue motor if using the S Levers, is this correct do you know?

BTW, I have reviewed: https://dccwiki.com/Turnout_Motors  but like most other sources I've come across, it appears to address OO scale track, and not the Cobalt range.  DCC concepts online advice also appears to address only OO scale, and not answer my questions above.

Big apologies if this has already been addressed - if so, could you point me to the relevant posts?

Thanks heaps,
Svend
Western Australia

[clayliner]

Hi, Svend -

I'm afraid I can't answer your questions - but I'm sure others can and will - but welcome to the forum anyway. I hope you'll find lots of friendly advice and help here, and we'll look forward to seeing progress with your version of the Corris* over coming weeks. Keep us posted!

David.

*my favourite Welsh line, incidentally!

[JulienW]

Essentially the only difference between 009 track and OO is the distance between the rails (9 mm and 16.5 mm respectively). Attaching wires to one is no different to attaching wires to the other, but perhaps they just need to be a little longer to account for the bigger gauge  ;D

IIRC wiring a point for DCC is the same as using frog polarity switching on an analogue layout. When doing this myself I solder the wires to the outside of the stock rails (the 'left and right continuous rails'), running the bare end of the wire about 5 mm along the rail web to get a good joint. At the frog the wire comes up between the sleepers wherever I can get it through and the bare end is curled round to be soldered to both rails of the vee. This can be a bit tricky with all the meltable plastic components in the area, so the key is to work quickly with a hot, clean soldering iron and not let it dwell. In fact it might be worth practicing this on a couple of old / second (or third) hand points that will not matter if you get things too hot. A good flux will help, and if you have one of those sold for electronics use that do not need to be cleaned that will help, otherwise it would be best to solder the wires in place before you lay the point so that you can clean off any flux residues as these tend to lead to corrosion of the rails & wires in the long term (and if using nickel rail the green discolouration is a little unprototypical!)

You will also need to fit insulating rail joiners between the frog exit rails (at the end of the point) and the rest of the track, and add appropriate feeds from the controller to the track isolated from the point.

I can't comment on the specific set up you have in mind, but when it comes to dimensions and clearances with points 009 has more in common with N (particularly when it comes to how far the point blades need to move), and with that in mind there may be some more specific advice from DCC Concepts, either on their website or from an e-mail enquiry.

[Svend Beicher]

Thanks David, very glad to be aboard!

[Svend Beicher]

Thanks Julien, great reply  :)
I'm hoping to practice some soldering over the next couple of weeks - I'll keep your notes close and take a deep breath!
Thanks again.

[Graeme Dunbar]

I can't comment on the specific set up you have in mind, but when it comes to dimensions and clearances with points 009 has more in common with N (particularly when it comes to how far the point blades need to move), and with that in mind there may be some more specific advice from DCC Concepts, either on their website or from an e-mail enquiry.

Particularly as many, even most kit and scratch-built locomotives use N-gauge/scale 'donor' chassis. I think it unlikely that RTR 009 locomotive producers will have strayed too far from the N 'template' other than to beef up visual details to make them look more 4mm scale.

Also, people use N track, either suitably disguised or in hidden areas such as fiddle yards. Apart from Peco N track I've seen Kato Unitrack and no doubt other types have been used too.

[B.Meldon]

The 12 inch radius and 18 inch radius Y Peco 009 points do not not have dropper wires fitted.
Do not try and solder these through the gap in the plastic under the point, you will just melt the plastic and damage the point.
You need to solder the wire on the outside edge of one of the two rails that comes from the V in the center of the point.
This wire will then need to be switched with the point, using contacts in, or conected to the point motor as the blade to fixed rail electrical switching is unreliable. (Known as a frog polarity switch.)

With DCC each of the central V rails on every point will need an isulating fishplate and each section of track will need a feed.

With DC in total less wires would be needed to be soldered to the rails, but you still need the frog polarity switch.

[Ian McAulay]

Hi Svend

I use DCC Cobalt Omega point motors on my 00 gauge layout. As Julien says, the only real difference is how far apart the rails are. My layout is DC but I don't trust the conductivity of rail joiners so I have just as many droppers as you would use for DCC.

I think there are only a couple of things I can add to the excellent advice already given:

• You don't need the over-centre spring that Peco points have on their tiebars, the Cobalt motor will hold the blades against the stock rail for you. Removing the spring is dead easy - turn the point upside down, grab the spring with tweezers or very fine nosed pliers, wiggle and pull and it will come away with almost no effort.
• It's worth doing some experimenting with the position of the fulcrum on the Cobalt motors. You want enough travel at the tiebar to push the point blade firmly against the stock rail but not much more. The excess travel is absorbed in the flexibility of the actuating wire supplied with the motor. I actually substitute a slightly more flexible piece of piano wire to absorb the over-travel so that I get a firm pressure of blade against stock rail without mechanically overloading the structure of the point. (My experience here is with Peco 00 points with code 75 rail, so not exactly the same as 009 with code 80.)
• I like using solid cored wire for the droppers rather than stranded. (aka 'bell wire' in UK parlance.) You can bend it to exactly the shape you want so it fits snugly into the web of the rail which leads to a neat soldered joint. I also find the extra mechanical stiffness useful in threading it down through the corresponding hole in the baseboard. Others may disagree about this, some quite forcefully!

I hope that's helpful

Ian

[Svend Beicher]

Thanks Ian, Brian and Graeme, some great advice in there, esp reagarding where to position the dropper wire. Very much appreciated.