Scratch buiding building wagons

[Ian Belcher]

Hi, I'm a newbee toying with the idea of scratch building. One of my first thoughts has been how do I go about replacing the standard "n" gauge coupling with a 009 type when dealing with a peco "n" gauge chassis kit? Where might I acquire the necessary 009 couplings?
Any suggestions would be useful.  ???
Thank you

[JulienW]

A couple (pun intended) of quick thoughts here.

You could continue to use the N-gauge couplings.  There are a small number of members that do this and that may limit you when it comes to running your stock on other members' layouts as the N gauge couplings are not conpatible with the usual 009 ones, though this can be gotten around by having adaptor wagons (different couplings at each ends).

There are a number of different '009' couplings (Bemo, Greenwich, etc) but as they all work on pretty much the same principle - a hinged loop on one central buffer drops over a pin on the buffer on the adjacent vehicle - they are generally compatible with one another.  The main thing to ensure is that they are set up so that they are central to the track and all at the same height.  To this end RT Models sell a very useful cast resin coupling height gauge that will work with the 'lifting loop' types of couplings.

As to actually replacing the N couplings Peco used to do a plastic coupling that fitted in the same slot as that on their N scale chassis.  A search of the Peco site tells me they still make them and that these are GR-101. They have also more recently made a different version of the 009 coupling(GR-102) as fitted to their rtr009 stock that slots into an NEM pcoket but that relies on the chassis you have also having the NEM pockets - Peco will sell you some (GR-103) if not!

The other alternative (and one that most 009 modellers use) are the Greenwich couplings. Again there are 2 versions, one of which will fit directly into the NEM pockets, and both types are available from Narrow Planet (though they may not currently be in stock) and also Dundas Models. Dundas will also sell you the Peco couplings along with most (if not all) of the other types of 009 couplings

Hope that helps.

[Ian Belcher]

Thank you, most instructive and helpful. There's hope for me yet.

[B.Meldon]

The key thing with whatever coupling you end up using in 009 is adjustment.

They all have to be at exactly the same height.
If you use a loop and pin coupling then the loops need to be horizontal in both directions, or you can get problems.  Slopping to one side will cause the coupling loops to push each other up and not couple, sloping up at the end can make them slip off the pins and uncouple, slopping down can stop them from sliding up the pins when coupling up.
It is the height of the loop that is the critical measurement, get this correct and the pin height will be right as well.
Sadly, even ready to run items have couplings that are set at different heights within their own range!
For example, the couplings on the Minitrains locos are set too high to couple up to their own wagons without assistance also you will find that with several manufactures that use the NEM pockets the couplings droop downwards as they are slightly lose in the pocket.
There are also issues with some of the Peco couplings where the loops of other couplings are too short to get over the pin. (Filling the face of the Peco coupling sorts that out.)

Adjustment is key to success, it may take some time to get each vehicle correct, but in the long run it is well worth the effort.

I use the loop and pin on the small Roco and/or Minitrains four-wheel wagons as a height guide as these are very difficult to change and I use them a lot as bogies complete with the couplings.

Brian Meldon

[Stefan Krebs]

Hi Ian,

First things first: WELCOME!

I have to second Brian: Coupler adjustment is absolute key for satisfactory operation. Of course, if you only build for display it's a non-issue.
As Brian explained the top-edge of the buffing face (on which the hoop rides), is the key parameter for heights.
But also the heights of the 'pin' over which the hoop falls is critical, as is its slant backwards. See NEM360 (https://www.morop.eu/index.php/de/nem-normen.html) for what are the critical dimensions; noting the values are for H0, not 009. (if you need translations contact me; they moan about lack of translators, but then aren't interested if you volunteer!   ;D)

As there is no standard for the dimensions use a good quality model (from Bemo or Liliput) to discern these measures. If you plan to build more than a few wagons its worth to build a 'calibration track', i.e. screw a piece of wood to a piece of track (length of the longest wagon) and mount a perfectly adjusted coupling on that wood piece; that way you have a reference gauge to adjust against.
Another point I noticed, buying some second-hand stock over the years, which had the centring spring removed: quite a lot of modellers can't adjust those springs and thus remove them. You need them for good operation, but they only must be just strong enough to centre the coupling. If they still derail the wagon, it needs ballast to stay on the track.
You'll find that quite a lot modellers have hoops on one side only, and recommend that too. That is not necessary if the couplers are properly adjusted, but shows that adjusting couplers is a bit of an art; maybe find somebody to show you how?

As Brian explained, if you use N-gauge chassis for your projects staying with the Rapido-coupler is the way to go. However, while there is little to convert 009 or H0e to Rapido couplers the reverse is much easier as suitable couplers/ adapters are available. Thus, if you plan to use 009 'stuff' it's worth choosing that coupler type.
Greenwich and DG couplers have to be build, but as they are sheet metal they are the most discreet (for small wagons use the N-gauge DG). Dundas sells you the Bemo couplers, which are plastic with metal hoop. From ROCO you can order their coupler as a spare part, which has a more prototypical look.
For high quality performance and prototypical looks (of an American prototype knuckle coupler) there is Kadee, but they come at a price. If you plan to build American (or Russian) prototypes these are almost a must. They are very fiddly to assemble and very fiddly to adjust, but then they work excellently.
Another prototypical coupler, modelled on the Scharfenberg coupler (as used by various narrow gauge lines and tramways in Europe) is supplied by Veit; see their website at https://www.modellbau-veit.de/produkte/zubehoer-h0e/kupplungen/index.php. A fantastic model that works well, but again quality has its price.
Veit also produces a scale model of a prototypical narrow-gauge (cone-) coupler in metal; you'll need pincers to insert the couple-bolt into the loose (!) couple-iron, absolutely prototypical! It's essentially the same as the ROCO, but hasn't got the compatibility modifications (hoop-catch & hoop) to work with the common 009-couplers.
Hard to come by is the model of the chopper-coupler (as used mostly on Asian colonial railways), it was made by a British manufacturer (GEM???), but I don't know whether it's still in production.

Another tip: I use TT-gauge stock (mostly Kitmaster and BTTB) for parts like W-iron, axle boxes etc., as I find the N-gauge pieces to tiddly. Of course you can build it all from scratch...

If you provide more detail as to what you plan to build there might be more tips...

Good luck and have fun!
Waldschrat

[Hugh Norwood]

Don't be put off by Brian's comments about coupling heights etc. Once you get the hang of it it's fine. I use Greenwich and they DO NOT have to be all exactly the same height (or even horizontal in both directions).