Introduction
Since the moderators agreed to extend the title of the signalling section to operation, I can now add a topic about operation on the C&DR.
Some of us are scenery and/or rolling stock builders rather than layout operators, but I hope this topic will show you that model railway operation is very interesting itself. Operating the C&DR to me is as relaxing as a game of patience, or watching a good film is to others. My fellow Dutch Group member Daan Biessels, another railway operation fan, calls this the Great Railway Operating Game, or something to that effect.
Any 009 layout, even a small one, can be operated to represent prototypical traffic flows. This even applies to an industrial or mining layout where some typical train formations and materials and workers movements can be represented next to carrying the main product. The C&DR as a general carrier also runs public goods and passenger services.
I will first give a schematic diagram of the layout so you will know what I'm talking about:
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traffic pattern
Some modeller's licence is necessary to explain a fairly busy general carrier in a remote area of Scotland. To this end I have borrowed some properties from the railways in the southwest of Ireland, like the Tralee & Dingle and the West Clare. We have to assume the area through which the C&DR runs is rather more populated than it really is.
The traffic pattern on the C&DR was worked out by thinking of the traffic one would expect on a railway of this kind. The coal trains from Inverlochan to the harbour are limited to about two a day, with a possible third during the night shift. These are block trains of course, with little else to do but running them back and forth, positioning them for loading and discharging, and running round the engine at either end.
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General goods and passenger traffic is much more interesting and varied. There are two goods services a day. A thrice daily passenger service and the boat train which only stops at the major stations will give you four passenger services between 7am and 10pm. One of them makes an extra return trip in the morning from Dunalistair to Rae Bridge, the busiest part of the line. The afternoon train is combined with a goods service and runs mixed, and there is an evening goods making a complete return trip over the line.
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The Glenfinnan branch has a passenger service, a mixed train and another goods only. These continue from Rae Bridge to Dunalistair, adding a few extra services on the lower division of the line. In addition there is a rule that every goods train can be and usually is upgraded to a slow mixed service by adding a single carriage instead of the brake van. At present there is a shortage of brake third carriages for this service, but several more are planned.
I will continue this topic with more instalments describing timetable running, goods operation and operating rules.
In view of the overwhelming response to this topic I decided not to keep you waiting any longer. ;D
The purpose of the Craigcorrie loops and the fiddle yards
Last time I forgot to clarify the purpose of the Craigcorrie loops. All stations except for Craigcorrie can be operated normally, but Craigcorrie is a hidden reversing loop where train make-up cannot be changed. An answer to that is to make a different train reappear for each one that went in. There is space for six trains on three parallel roads. This will always return a different train from the one that was sent to the loop, resulting in more variety and stabling more rolling stock out of sight, keeping the layout clear from overcrowding (usually, that is!).
There are two additional fiddle yards. The Glenfinnan branch ends in a four-track yard that can be accessed behind the layout. From the branch, a short stub yard sprouts under the hill on the left of Rae Bridge. This acts as the mountaintop tram terminus. All fiddle yards and the loops are controlled remotely by a simpe form of track detection, but this goes beyond the operation topic.
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Timetable running
Running a railway without a timetable won
Fascinating Ted! I've worked a similar scheme on a friend's O gauge layout with block instruments controlling the flow. It was most enjoyable.
I look forward to the next instalment!
Again, thanks. I've only ever run what I fancied on previous layouts but once the IoSR has 2 ends it will be possible to do something similar. I feel some head scratching and time wating coming on. Oh good. ;D
John W
I agree, fascinating.
Having looked at the funny shape of Isle Ornsay and how difficult it will be to communicate between the station operator and the fiddle yard I think it might be easier to develop an operating sequence.
I like the idea of a flip book with a sequence of moves that can be carried out at leisure without trying to beat the clock.
Thanks, guys. I agree a flip-over book would be a good idea for both operators at Isle Ornsay. To give you an idea of a flip-over book page, here is an example:
Move Time Type From To
7 0640 Passenger Craigcorrie Dunalistair
- all stations
- at Rae Bridge combine with loco and carriage off train 6A and double-head to Dunalistair
- make up return train after arrival at Dunalistair
- put extra carriage in storage siding after arrival at DR, coal and water pilot loco
- pilot loco continues to harbour sidings as day shunter
- coal and water train loco
Train 6A was the early morning return train from Dunalistair (also referred to as DR). This had started out as train no. 5 from Rae Bridge to Dunalistair, at 0540, using a single bogie carriage. The combination departs from Rae Bridge at 0730. This can be verified from the diagram.
That's the sort of thing I was thinking of, although I'll obviously only need it for one station (at the moment).
Thanks Ted :)
I've seen several exhibition layouts spoilt by using "Timetables and clocks", >:( especially those which followed a real(ish) timetable which had more inaction than action. :P Hursley is one that spring to mind, Tigger could name several more. :-\
Happisburgh (Sorry standard gauge, I know) was meant to run to a
It depends on what you want. Looking at Ted's time/distance chart it would appear that for almost any given point between 0000 and 2359 there is action, and between 0600 and 2200 there is at least two workings at any given moment - I think given the size of the C&DR that is very reasonable without 'flooding' the line with movement. Besides, model layouts aren't just about the trains - take some time to search out the small scenic details that give such lines character.
Well obviously there is a difference between home and exhibition operation. I only play with Rae Bridge at an exhibition, just to keep some movement on and run a special depending on the public. Kids love an engine with a smoke unit, or a funny looking train.
The movement table of the C&DR home layout is quite busy for an ordinary narrow gauge line, but I like action on the line because I like running trains. However, even if two movements seem to be at the same time, I usually run them one by one. I can run two trains at the same time, but it takes more co-ordination and I like to concentrate on one at a time.
The next instalment will be about goods working using the John Allen approach.
SWTH... You've seemed to have missed one word from my first sentence :-[, "exhibition", home layouts can do what they want, it's up to each owner. 8) But exhibition layouts should keep this moving, scenery may be nice but the public are there to see layouts working.
Well, perhaps you'll find that a home layout isn't very different from an exhibition layout regarding keeping something moving. Having to wait for the timetable would become VERY boring! The main difference is that in a home layout you can stop operation at any given time and continue the next evening.
This is especially important when you devise a goods vehicle circulation system that represents the random movement of real goods vehicles. If you can leave things as they are without disrupting the system, or even park vehicles in the next available siding when you run trains for visitors, it makes life much easier. I will write something about this next time.
Quote from: Isaac W on April 08, 2012, 22:36
SWTH... You've seemed to have missed one word from my first sentence :-[, "exhibition", home layouts can do what they want, it's up to each owner. 8) But exhibition layouts should keep this moving, scenery may be nice but the public are there to see layouts working.
Not at all - as I said, there is movement during the whole 'day' and for the vast majority of that there is two or more workings at the same time. The C&DR seems to 'keep it moving' all the time, whilst using a timetable for guidance. Joe Public may well want to see 'something' happening, but there is no need to have Clapham Junction levels of activity, so long as something moves and is seen to do 'something'.
SWTH I wasn
Quote from: tedp on April 08, 2012, 23:03
Having to wait for the timetable would become VERY boring!
Horses for courses. I came across someone once who ran his trains at the appropriate 24-hour clock time, including going out to his garden shed at 23:10 or so to run the appropriate train around the garden.
Quote from: tat2drod on April 09, 2012, 16:45
... I came across someone once who ran his trains at the appropriate 24-hour clock time, including going out to his garden shed at 23:10 or so to run the appropriate train around the garden.
Any idea what his shrink said? :o
Quote from: tedp on April 09, 2012, 19:40
Quote from: tat2drod on April 09, 2012, 16:45
... I came across someone once who ran his trains at the appropriate 24-hour clock time, including going out to his garden shed at 23:10 or so to run the appropriate train around the garden.
Any idea what his shrink said? :o
Naah... but in the company he kept, this was considered perfectly reasonable behaviour :)
Like I said... horses for courses.
Quote from: tedp on April 08, 2012, 23:03Having to wait for the timetable would become VERY boring!
Certainly boring if being run by one person. However the Dutton Bay used to employ four operators to run a day's trains, and we initially used a simple sequence system too. However it fell apart a couple of times when an operator simply finished one job, and then went to the next job immediately, without waiting for the other trains (being run by other operators) to do their thing.
I installed a fast-time clock, not so much so people would try to run the trains on-time, but to stop them being run ahead of time. The introduction of the clocks also resulted in a new rule in the rule book:
it is perfectly acceptable to run late, but leaving a station ahead of time was a dismissable offence The problem of early running trains then went away. On the odd occasion it occurred, the punishment was downgraded to "loss of a chocolate biscuit privilege" at the post-session supper.
Quote from: duttonbay on April 10, 2012, 08:34
I installed a fast-time clock, not so much so people would try to run the trains on-time, but to stop them being run ahead of time. The introduction of the clocks also resulted in a new rule in the rule book: it is perfectly acceptable to run late, but leaving a station ahead of time was a dismissable offence
The problem of early running trains then went away. On the odd occasion it occurred, the punishment was downgraded to "loss of a chocolate biscuit privilege" at the post-session supper.
A well known saying from the bus industry:
"There are thousands of reasons to run late, but there's no reason to run early."
Perhaps there is some merit in fast clocks after all - it would be interesting to try one out with the present timetable, but I expect it would need train times to be adjusted. ;)
Can we get a fast clock for work? ;D
John W
Quote from: tedp on April 10, 2012, 09:50
Perhaps there is some merit in fast clocks after all - it would be interesting to try one out with the present timetable, but I expect it would need train times to be adjusted. ;)
Ted,
I have no real idea of how your layout is operated, but it seems as though it is (often) just you alone. If that's the case then you won't run things early. It's only when you have multiple operators when you run into this problem - one job is completed (a train arrives at the terminus, and handed over to the station master) and then the operator picks up the next sequence card, which might be to drive a train from the other end of the line.
If you do run a fast clock there are times when you will need to be waiting. The Dutton Bay often has operators sitting with their trains, waiting for the clock so they can depart. But that's fine. I have (had, since the line in now closed) stacks of magazines to read while waiting for the clock. Nobody complained that they spent too much time doing nothing - that's actually very close to the way a real railway operates, especially on a single line. Crews often spend an inordinate amount of time waiting...
Well, obviously there is a difference between single person operation and a multi-operator layout spread out over a large area. I suppose I would need to make changes if I had regular two- or three- operator sessions, which is possible but rarely happens. Still, a fast clock might be tried at some stage!
I will now continue with the next episode:
Goods operation (1)
The goods stock on the C&DR was originally built with a vague idea of what kind of transport would be needed on the railway, and goods operation was just a random movement of goods stock from one place to another. I experimented with card order systems but quickly became dissatisfied with them because of the work to keep track of every vehicle on the layout. Any time a train is run without shuffling the cards around, the system becomes inconsistent with the actual situation on the layout, and has to be sorted out.
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30 years ago I read the Model Railroader magazine, and inevitably up came John Allen
Finally, here is the second part of the description of goods operation on the C&DR. The visit to Sparsholt rather interfered and so did a nautical distraction which I won't bother you with!
Goods operation (2)
The advantages of the tagging system described in tha last instalment are obvious. It is inexpensive, it gives the destination of the vehicle directly without reference to card orders, and it results in a nearly random traffic flow with unpredictable train loads. When trains have been run for visitors, the goods stock is parked in the first available siding. During the next operating session it is forwarded to the first destination displayed on the tag.
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Refinements
Trains in the Craigcorrie return loops being difficult to access, Craigcorrie (code red) is always represented on a two thirds sector of the washer. Each vehicle will therefore return from Craigcorrie with a valid destination code (on the small sector of the washer) ready to be read.
A terminal station like Dunalistair has to be treated in a special way. At a passing station the mean exchange rate of goods stock is 50% for each goods train passing through, two directions from the station being available. At a terminal station all stock would be cleared from the station with every outward bound service, which won
Really interesting, thanks. You should put it all together in an article and send it to the Railway Modeller as there are too many 'daft' NG layouts which make people think we are all silly boys playing trains... well I know we are but so are the rivet counters really.
Cheers
John W
Quote from: Isle of Stoner on April 19, 2012, 11:41
Really interesting, thanks. You should put it all together in an article and send it to the Railway Modeller as there are too many 'daft' NG layouts which make people think we are all silly boys playing trains... well I know we are but so are the rivet counters really.
Cheers
John W
Ted has already done that John. See "West Coast Narrow Gauge Part2 -- Operating the Craigcorrie & Dunalistair Railway " in Railway Modeller October 1991.
There is also "Goods Traffic on the CDR " in 009 News September 1998.
Various comments more on operation in general than C & DR in particular.
It is extremely difficult and frustrating to get a speeded up clock sysytem to work satisfactorily. One of the few layouts I have seen where this worked was a layout based on somewhere on the south coast [was it Lulworth] by Dr Mike Walkingshaw. There have been articles on the layout which was a terminus to fiddle yard with full block bells etc to boot.
Some years ago on the E&LMRC Edinburghshire and Lothians 009 layout we used flipover cards which on one side told the operator what to do and on the other told the public that this was the 3.00pm passenger to Marionville etc. Worked a treat. The club has again adopted a similar system for its new s***d?&%d gauge layout of Newcastleton on the Waverley route. Cards on one side tell the operators [two - one down line and one up line] what train is next and will tell the public exactly which train it is as this layout is running prototypical trains for a given historical period. Again this system on the layout's one outing so far worked a treat with few errors over the 3 days at Glasgow. This system assumes of course the operator is literate!
Going broad gauge now I have for nearly 40 years been an operator on Richard Chown's Castle Rackrent layout, Irish 5' 3" gauge based about 100 years ago in the south west of Ireland when still British. The layout has been described in the magazines over the years but is a 5 station single track line with 2 branches operated to a timetable with, instead of washers coloured pins inserted into the wagons to determine their destination just as Ted does on the C & DR. In addtion trains are belled from one station to another which adds to the interest. Operated at home so if there is a lull in services because someone has tied themseles up in knots [to the delight of everyone else] it does not matter but this system would not work [it has been tried] in a public arena mainly due to the shunting.
Which brings me to Caeredwyn the E&LMRC 009 which is a 5 road fiddle to main passing station to passing loop to 5 road fiddle which requires 13 x train sets to operate. 5 each in the fiddles with 3 in the 4 loops to the public side of the layout. This layout works on the principle of if there is an empty loop move a train to it which in turn leaves either another loop empty or a fiddle yard road empty. You very quickly settle into a routine which keeps trains moving all the time without having to worry about timetable. It becomes most interesting when you insert train number 14 which in effect means you have all loops occupied!! Great fun. :laugh:
Malcolm
I admire anyone who uses an operating sequence during an exhibition - I never managed to do so! ::)
I did indeed publish something on the tagging system in the Modeller and in the 009 News, thanks for reminding us, Garry. But these were written many years ago so I decided it would be a good idea to do a new (ish) write-up on the forum.
An amusing and interesting addition to the method of operation is the regulation of goods and mixed trains rules: http://www.009dutch.nl/cdr/main/pages/eregulation.htm (http://www.009dutch.nl/cdr/main/pages/eregulation.htm).
This was drawn up during a correspondence between Tigger and myself and it has had a pronounced effect on train make-up, as it concentrates on brake capacity in trains. Up to a few years ago I never bothered much, but now I take care to marshal vacuum-braked stock next to the engine on downhill trains.
Real railways have similar operating rules aimed at safety, efficiency etc. Thinking up something on these lines for your own railway increases realism as it makes you think about real operating conditions.
Quote from: tedp on April 18, 2012, 20:17
and so did a nautical distraction which I won't bother you with!
Stop knocking holes in the hull :-)
Quote from: tat2drod on April 19, 2012, 22:04
Quote from: tedp on April 18, 2012, 20:17
and so did a nautical distraction which I won't bother you with!
Stop knocking holes in the hull :-)
Since it seems you want to know, actually a
Quote from: tedp on April 19, 2012, 23:06
Quote from: tat2drod on April 19, 2012, 22:04
Quote from: tedp on April 18, 2012, 20:17
and so did a nautical distraction which I won't bother you with!
Stop knocking holes in the hull :-)
Since it seems you want to know, actually a
Well the up side is I will be able to invest in a better one.... ;D
And the time I have to wait for it will enable me... to do some operating of the layout! ;)
Quote from: tedp on April 20, 2012, 08:36
Well the up side is I will be able to invest in a better one.... ;D
And the time I have to wait for it will enable me... to do some operating of the layout! ;)
Just shows that every cloud has a silver lining.
Quote from: tedp on April 19, 2012, 23:06
Quote from: tat2drod on April 19, 2012, 22:04
Quote from: tedp on April 18, 2012, 20:17
and so did a nautical distraction which I won't bother you with!
Stop knocking holes in the hull :-)
Since it seems you want to know, actually a
Ted
What about an autopilot for the layout that drives all the trains to a timetable and all you have to do is sit back and watch.
By the way whatever happened to sextants and compasses and the like and sailing the boat using the wheel in the same way you would turn the controller on a model railway. Seems to me an autopilot takes the fun out of sailing in much the same way an automated model railway takes the fun out of operation. Ditch your autopilot for the boat and invest in 009 Sales!! ;)
Malcolm
Quote from: Malcolm on April 20, 2012, 17:40
Seems to me an autopilot takes the fun out of sailing in much the same way an automated model railway takes the fun out of operation. Ditch your autopilot for the boat and invest in 009 Sales!! ;)
Malcolm
We're not talking about 12ft sailing dinghies here, even Cap'n Ted needs to eat, sleep and do his daily ablutions when on a voyage!
Mick
Quote from: Malcolm on April 20, 2012, 17:40
...By the way whatever happened to sextants and compasses and the like and sailing the boat using the wheel in the same way you would turn the controller on a model railway. Seems to me an autopilot takes the fun out of sailing in much the same way an automated model railway takes the fun out of operation. Ditch your autopilot for the boat and invest in 009 Sales!! ;)
Malcolm
;D ;D
As Mick says an autopilot is a very necessary item on long sea passages. Apart from enabling you to do your 'daily ablutions' it frees your hands for improving sail trim, keeping a better lookout, for navigation etc. In the old days I had to back the foresail and let the boat drift a while if I had to go below deck.
Invest in 009 sales? I have done so time and again, even last time at Sparsholt. Now I'm retired I plan to take a small modelling box to sea and build a few of all those kits when in harbour!
But as long as I have to wait for boat spares, I can go back to... operating the C&DR! The early morning passenger to Dunalistair is almost due, old no. 11 under steam and ready to go. So if you don't mind... ;)
Quote from: tedp on April 19, 2012, 17:38
I admire anyone who uses an operating sequence during an exhibition - I never managed to do so! ::)
We used operating sequences at exhibitions with both our O Gauge layouts in the MRC. I spent very many hours of fun drawing up sequences which were cyclic and it was very enjoyable and satisfying to use them at shows because it gave a real purpose to every train and light engine movement (40 train movements on one, 80 on the other plus all the shunting and light engine movements!) Very much the same can be said for the tagging system which Ted uses. I drew up a system over 25 years ago and the introduction of new stock this winter and Ted's encouragement and guideance means that the day I start using it is probably a little nearer!
Quote from: tedp on April 19, 2012, 17:38
This was drawn up during a correspondence between Tigger and myself and it has had a pronounced effect on train make-up, as it concentrates on brake capacity in trains. Up to a few years ago I never bothered much, but now I take care to marshal vacuum-braked stock next to the engine on downhill trains.
Oh yes, I remember it well! The important thing to remember is not how much a loco will pull but how much it's capable of stopping! That's why the Riddles WD 2-10-0 locos were only classified 8F and not 9F. The extra rear pair of wheels was not for traction but to lessen axle loading on poor track and was not fitted with brakes, hence their classification was no more than the 2-8-0 locos. I digress...
Quote from: Malcolm on April 20, 2012, 17:40
Seems to me an autopilot takes the fun out of sailing in much the same way an automated model railway takes the fun out of operation.
I think the analogy is quite apt. If by automated model railway you mean turn the power on, leave the room to let the railway get on with it then there is no fun in taking part, but I don't think the boat sails itself to where you tell it while you go off and have a pint or three in the pub.
On the other hand, an automated model railway where you set the points and signals and send the trains off in the knowledge that they will slow by themselves and stop at the next signal while you focus your attention on another train movement is good fun. It is what I am trying to implement. Different people enjoy different aspects of the hobby: some like to be engine driver and others like to be signalman or fat controller. Even with a fully automated railway I assume there is still the enjoyment in designing the sequence, programming it and seeing if it manages to complete the cycle without descending into chaos. However, that would seem more appropriate for standard gauge mainline rather than the majority of NG layouts. I can imagine that driving a live steam model outside on challenging track must be fun, but the actual control of an 009 loco is a fairly small part of the railway modelling process to my mind. I'm rather fond of shunting though.
Frankly, there is a world of difference. An autopilot is an indispensible item on long sea passages. It is used both on commercial ships and seagoing yachts as no one can safely steer a vessel for more than an hour on end - it's a boring job that can best be taken on by a computer. Watchkeeping and navigation are much more important, and a legal obligation as well, which is made easier by using an autopilot. Yachting may be done for leisure, but there is a seriously sharp edge on it that can kill unless you know what you're doing.
On the other hand, a model railway is an innocent form of leisure that I find purely relaxing. Any automatic operation of a model railway is, like Graeme says, another aspect of modelling and simple good fun without any more danger to it than crashing one train into another if you mess up. ;D
Returning to topic, the C&DR has a few automated measures to improve ease of operation. These are possibly better suited to the electrics section, and have been briefly mentioned in the signalling thread, but the idea is as follows.
Each station can be assigned one of the two available controllers. Any station (say, Rae Bridge) can lay a claim on the next section of main line by clearing the corresponding home or starting signal. This is then connected to the station controller. But if the same section of line has already been claimed by the station at the other end (say, Dunalistair), Rae Bridge has to wait until the line is released.
In that case, an insulated length of track near next to the home and signals is de-energised. This has two purposes: first, to prevent a train in Rae Bridge from straying on to the line that was claimed by Dunalistair. Second, if the Dunalistair has sent a train on the line, this can continue right up to the Rae Bridge home signal. Then it will stop.
The result is that I can send off a train from Dunalistair, and meanwhile continue shunting at Rae Bridge without worrying about the inward bound train. If the shunting is completed when the other train is still under way, I can clear the Rae Bridge home, and return the Dunalistair starter to danger. The train will then be taken over by the Rae Bridge controller.
The switching and interlocking action is taken care of by a relay circuit that works so fast you won't even see the train falter. This circuit is used on the two main line sections.
At Rae Bridge, the branch is manually assigned a controller. Here, no relay circuit is in use, but it could be done equally well. There is a de-energised section on the connecting line between the tram station and the main line junction. This is worked in conjunction with the branch home signal, and has a diode so it can be worked into the other direction without operating the home signal, which would look a bit funny. But I fear we are not becoming too technical for this topic. ::)